16-07-2004 20:48									#1
	Problems with naval combat in pre-magnetism era Support Apolyton

In ancient age, galleys have same attack and defense ratings, which makes early naval combat useful, especialy if you need to sink some troop ships.

But, after Astronomy, when Caravles become available, naval combat is pretty much dead. No unit can touch Caravel until magnetism (exempt few UUs).


Some moding solutions:

1) Make Caravel get its defense rating reduced to 1
Pros: Caravel vs Caravel combat is possibile
Cons: Curragh and Galley could destroy Caravel, Dromons are superior to Caravels, Carrack is unbeatable until magnetism

2) Make Caravel get its attack rating increased to 2
Pros: Caravel vs Caravel combat is possibile, Dromons are not too dominating after Astronomy
Cons: Needs inflation of defense and offense capabilities of magnetism era units to be properly balanced


Any other ideas?


EDIT:
Fixed a typo.

Last edited by player1 on 16-07-2004 at 23:12

	16-07-2004 21:36									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think naval ADM's need rise quicker.

	16-07-2004 22:39									#3
	Re: Problems with naval combat in pre-magnetism era Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by player1 2) Make Caravel get its attack rating increased to 1

to 2, right?

quote: Any other ideas?

Increase Galley attack to 2. They should have better stats that the Curragh, since they were war ships. Dromons would still be a great UU because of lethal sea bombardment.

I know this would give the Galley-vs-Caravel a 50/50 chance of winning combat, but consider that Galleys were war ships while Caravels were not.

	16-07-2004 22:40									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Reduce the AD of caravels, but give them bombard 0 range.

	16-07-2004 23:18									#5
	Re: Re: Problems with naval combat in pre-magnetism era Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by alexman Increase Galley attack to 2. They should have better stats that the Curragh, since they were war ships. Dromons would still be a great UU because of lethal sea bombardment.

In that case Galley should not upgrade to Caravel.
otherwise you'll lose attack capability after Astornomy.

	16-07-2004 23:18									#6
	Re: Re: Problems with naval combat in pre-magnetism era Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by alexman Increase Galley attack to 2. They should have better stats that the Curragh, since they were war ships. Dromons would still be a great UU because of lethal sea bombardment.

In that case Galley should not upgrade to Caravel.
otherwise you'll lose attack capability after Astornomy.

	16-07-2004 23:20									#7
	Got spare money?

Good point.

It's the same situation now with the Dromon, however.

	16-07-2004 23:25									#8
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Good point. It's the same situation now with the Dromon, however.

But it's not so bad for Dromon, since it's an UU.

	17-07-2004 04:44									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

You could create a new unit with stats of 2/1/(3 or 4). There are plenty of fan-made graphics for units out there that you could use for it.

	17-07-2004 07:37									#10
	Remove this text

But who cares? The window between caravels and galleons/frigites is like what, 10 turns? 15 maybe at most?

	17-07-2004 12:08									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

That window can be significant.
You can easily get Astronomy before Gunpowder.
(very common at sea based map when navy in important)

Now, how many techs that is, in the meantime?
Gunpower, Chemistry, Physics and then Magnetism (if you skip techs like Mil Tradition, or not focus on Ecomony with Banking)

Only in games when you really don't care about navy is possibile to have short window.
Like discovering both Astronomy and Magnetism very late.

	17-07-2004 12:58									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Here are my mods for ships up to and including magnatism.

Currragh 0/1/2 HP:-1 TR:1
Galley 1/1/3 TR:2
Dromon 2/1/3 HP:+1 BB:3 RG:1 TR:2 NON-LETHAL bombardment
Caravel 2/2/3 HP:+2 BB:2 RG:0 TR:3
Carrack 2/2/4 HP:+2 BB:2 RG:0 TR:3
Frigate 4/4/4 HP:+3 BB:4 RG:1 TR:1 (foot units only)
Privateer 3/1/5 HP:+2 BB:4 RG:0 TR:0
Galleon 2/3/4 HP:+3 BB:2 RG:0 TR:4
Man-O-War 5/5/4 HP:+3 BB:6 Range:1 TR:1 (foot units only)

These mods have worked well for me and I have used them (except for the Dromon, Carrack, and curragh) since the days of CIV III.