18-07-2004 10:06									#1
	2112 end turn + 2113 discussion Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wow, that was fast. It is our turn again. I do not have the authority to make any moves, so I didn't make any. Oh, we got centauri ecology, but university is still in the lead with tech...

Last edited by arginine on 18-07-2004 at 10:14

	18-07-2004 17:10									#2
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Wow we have a thread before I even played

Playing now.

	18-07-2004 17:29									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Very interesting turn!

Centauri Ecology

Planetary networks is our goal. Tech cost 79. Currently in 10 but we'll get it well before then.

Decided not to pop the pod next to the NW MorInd scout. It's in the fungus so there'd be a good chance the scout would not survive if worms came out. Instead started to recall it to MorInd so it can be disbanded towards a former.
Independent SW scout moved east.
Eastern scout moved East too.

MorInd and MorMet grow next turn so doctors set this turn.

Note that we still have one more turn to decide about base spacing.

Attachment: acdg3-morgan-2112_endturn.zip
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	18-07-2004 17:30									#4
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Western view. Note the lovely coast

Attachment: 2112w.jpg
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	18-07-2004 17:31									#5
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Eastern view. Arid and fungusy seems to be the name of the game for the east

Attachment: 2112e.jpg
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	18-07-2004 17:33									#6
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Powergraph:
Hive rose again. The uni did not rise. Lal rose roughly equivilently with the Angels.
The Gaians have 3 pop and the angels 4. Since the angels rise happened this turn (Can someone confirm this for me? The powergraph effect is a bit confusing since pop doesn't usually make an impact until the turn after it was there if that makes sence. Their rise this turn seems consistant with 2 pop not a tech, but it's a bit odd methinks. Perhaps it was last turn they grew?) it's reasonable to assume they're working 2 nut squares as we are since they planeted their bases before we did. It's also reasonable to assume the Gaians are working a nut bonus as they've gotten faster growth than us.
The Angels are the only faction without Centauri Ecology. They are the only faction with IndBase other than us. No other faction has IndEcon yet (Possibly excepting the ai, although I think that's unlikely). The Gaians have InfNetworks.
Brother Lal leads in wealth.

Attachment: power2112.gif
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	18-07-2004 19:17									#7
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I strongly suggest to use one of our first terraformers to build a road northwest. Settling near that rainy min bonus on a river will boost our faction like nothing else will...

	18-07-2004 20:07									#8
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Alas though, that rainy mins bonus is on flat ground, so it's only a 2-2-1 by default Planting a base on it seems a good option though, especially since it's also on a river.

	18-07-2004 20:44									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How about foresting it at once (and perhaps boreholing later)?

	18-07-2004 21:31									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For our next turn I think we should start moving our southern scout further south, we want to meet Yang and figure out how close he is. We should be making plans to grab as much land as possible in the "neck" area that will connect us.

	18-07-2004 21:49									#11
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Yeah, I second that. Do we really need to cash in the northern scout? I´d also like to explore the fertile coast, even if it´s a somewhat low priority...

We need to find a balance between claiming land to the south and planting productive bases for our former fleet...

	18-07-2004 22:01									#12
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Turn posted as soon as I finish this post

I think cashing in the northern scout is close to essential. With our lower support we simply can't afford to have a non police duty scout draining one min per turn. Currently thats not an issue but when we get a former it will be if we want to carry on expanding. Hopefully we'll pop a unity rover or something and can carry on exploring but it's not a big issue.

	18-07-2004 22:22									#13
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I can confirm that from the minigame. A forest on a mineral special allows thinking about having more than one unit supported by the base working that spot - and that only until it grows to size two so no real possibility.

With IA and crawlers it's something different but only then. Hopefully the western (independent) scout pops a unity rover or at least an ogre next time...

(Does anyone know what pod results have been disabled by the Creator?)

	19-07-2004 03:01									#14
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I am most definitely NOT in favor of keeping our scouts further afield if it costs us precious minerals. We've cleared of ample sections of map, and can continue a more moderate pod-popping campaign while we conduct the critical business of establishing new bases and beginning our terraforming endeavors.

	19-07-2004 03:09									#15
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Well we should send the Indepented scout to make contact with Yang that wont cost us any minerals. A handfull of other scouts will be needed to guard our bases from mind worms though.

	19-07-2004 03:29									#16
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A former can defend a base just as well as a scout can, almost always successfully before 2150.

	19-07-2004 03:44									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Turn posted as soon as I finish this post I think cashing in the northern scout is close to essential. With our lower support we simply can't afford to have a non police duty scout draining one min per turn. Currently thats not an issue but when we get a former it will be if we want to carry on expanding. Hopefully we'll pop a unity rover or something and can carry on exploring but it's not a big issue.

I agree that we should cash in the scout.

Although I too would like to explore the western portion of our continent, I realize that it is more important to funnel our precious minerals towards production.

We should explore to the west after we get more minerals to to it with.

Mead

	19-07-2004 04:45									#18
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A regular scout on FM and wealth has dificulty against mind worms. A former will be wimpier. I could see a suicide scout and then a former against the damaged mind worm.

I think we should be sort of prepared have a probe team with the scout when looking for Yang. When we meet him, I'd expect war. When at war, we can probe, and his map would definately be nice :>

	19-07-2004 04:51									#19
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Hmmm. The thing is, under FM it's rare to be able to do any attacking against worms. The only worthwhile route is to defend. Since both formers and scouts defend with more or less the same ability against worms (The scout may have a slight edge with a morale upgrade) Formers can be used as a defence against worms. Sure, it's not ideal, and it'd really suck to lose a former to some worms, but in the first 50 turns, worms attack bases at around half strength. The odds are in the favour of the former.

Agree with probe to Yang, good idea Perhaps we should try to rush one in our 5th or 6th base (With the 10 free mins?)

	19-07-2004 04:57									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk *** Agree with probe to Yang, good idea Perhaps we should try to rush one in our 5th or 6th base (With the 10 free mins?)

Infiltrating Yang and probing him for all the Tech (plus map) he has is worth considering.


Mead

	19-07-2004 06:03									#21
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The CTO recommends that once the first former rolls out, road 2 squares directly north from Morgan Metallurgy, dump a forest and plant a base, working the rolling/rainy/volcano tile.

--CTO #endgame

	19-07-2004 15:31									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Mead Infiltrating Yang and probing him for all the Tech (plus map) he has is worth considering. Mead

Hm...
While tech is always good to have, the effects on tech cost are quite high. Of course I see the need for a modern military once we´re at war with the Hive, but it will considerably slow down our own research...

But then I think you´re right with the assumption we´ll go to war against Yang anyway...

	19-07-2004 17:11									#23
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I disagree with the idea of probing Yang, beyond an infiltration of his datalinks. There is nothing to gain in pissing him off before we are ready to confront him.

The tile 2 north+1 north west of Morg. Ind. looks like a nice base spot to me. Not on the river, but really, we don't want to put a base smack on that area and crowd it out. It would be childs play to situate, say, 3 bases in that general area, and have them all work natural 2-1-2 tiles (2-3-2 in the case of the Min special). We could then use those 10 mins for something other than a former build, say, to jump start our first crawlers with 10 minerals already having been put towards production.

	20-07-2004 05:41									#24
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He'll already be pissed off... we are running a democracy, right? And free market. His two least favorite things. So why not probe him?

It really depends on his power. If he is too powerful to piss off, we don't probe him, if he ain't, we probe his sorry bases until they give us their secrets.

	20-07-2004 08:24									#25
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We aren't running Democracy yet, and probably won't for a while. The support hit and the loss of free minerals should be delayed until efficiency becomes more critical.

	20-07-2004 10:14									#26
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Yang only hates Democracy, he has no opinions on Economics at all, he will not be offended by FM (why dose everyone think Yang is a Comunist?). Even under Democracy confilict with him will not be inevitable if we play our cards right *winks at Archaic* so we should not form a conflict centric view of Yang, he is infact a valuable tool, he shields us from the other human factions, can provide us with comlinks and comerce too. Yang will also tell us when or if Sparta has desided to attack him, we can then either cut some deal with the spartans to carve him up or support Yang against sparta, (like give him Plasma Steel or something). If Sparta can be goded into an unwinnable war then they will have basicaly lost the game vs our Economic power.

I reiterate our need to explore southward and found bases southward as well, even thoguh the land to the north may seem more promising at the moment we cant run the risk of having a THIRD to a HALF of our avalible land consumed by Hive expantions. I think we need to have bases in the 32 or 33 Latitude within the next 20 turns. It will only take 1 base to do it, a single base on the end of a long southrunning road would be sufficient, we could then fill in the surrounding territory later once the best build sites in the north are used up.

	20-07-2004 13:06									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Even under Democracy confilict with him will not be inevitable if we play our cards right *winks at Archaic* so we should not form a conflict centric view of Yang, he is infact a valuable tool, he shields us from the other human factions, can provide us with comlinks and comerce too. Yang will also tell us when or if Sparta has desided to attack him, we can then either cut some deal with the spartans to carve him up or support Yang against sparta, (like give him Plasma Steel or something).

I see your point and I support it (though I don´t like the idea of giving military tech to Yang ). I´m currently reading the Spartan Chronicles, where Yang and Morgan are allies. This is a very powerful alliance, although I don´t trust Yang enough to share such sensitive research data...

quote: I reiterate our need to explore southward and found bases southward as well, even thoguh the land to the north may seem more promising at the moment we cant run the risk of having a THIRD to a HALF of our avalible land consumed by Hive expantions. I think we need to have bases in the 32 or 33 Latitude within the next 20 turns. It will only take 1 base to do it, a single base on the end of a long southrunning road would be sufficient, we could then fill in the surrounding territory later once the best build sites in the north are used up.

I wholeheartedly agree with Impaler. Let´s grab what´s most likely to be claimed by others soon!

	21-07-2004 17:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by AndiD (Does anyone know what pod results have been disabled by the Creator?)

None, IIRC.

WRT the scout, if you keep it, will you pop enough goodies to pay for it? A 75 ec pod is not unlikely, and would pay for quite a few turns of extra minerals.