19-07-2004 16:50									#1
	Terraforming Issues Suffering from ads?

Sorry endgame I know its your domain, U still have the title

Our scientists have researched Centauri Ecology, and our first formers will be ready in a few years.
Time to get an idea what they have to do.

In the first years I see 3 Important themes:
1: every base needs a 2nut producing square
2: every base needs a forest (crawl before min restr lifted)
3: bases connected by roads/rivers for exploring, defending and expanding

When we have more former time we can plant sensors on base-spaces too.

IF we can get the WP (unlikely), this plan needs reviewing.
IF we can get the HGP (possible), we can work two squares/base: i think that should be a forest
IF we get the PTS (possible, except if its an other factions main goal) we will need to get the 2nut square ready before planting the base.

other projects wil not have serious terraforming consequenses

I think this is our paradigma until the restrictions are lifted.

endgame asked it in an other thread, but didn't get answer: is it possible to check a square's possibility to build a Borehole on it? IOW what is a slope?

Any comments?

	19-07-2004 18:43									#2
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If there are any adjacent squares at a lower height, it's on a slope. Slight differences in height don't count, such as 400m vs. 600m-- it has to be on a different level, like 1km vs. 2km. It's fairly rare for a square higher than 1km to be on a plateau on all sides. You can always build a borehole on a square between 0m and 999m. You can always lower any square once and then build a borehole there.

Roads to new base sites gain the most resources. The 2-nut square is usually the next most important, but so far there are plenty of those, so we may not need to do that at all in this game. Mines on rocky min specials are probably next. Forests are next, and roads should be put under them beforehand, so crawlers can quickly move around on them.

	20-07-2004 00:31									#3
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Terraforming priorities for the very early game, IMO:

1: Roads between existing bases and also to new base sites. Roads are critical to maintaining good defense in spite of our early support problems.

2. Forest seeding. I don't see a profound need to explicitly start farming, since we'll be working on tile at most for a good while yet. We have a good, damp starting location, which means most base sites will start with a 2 nut square.

3. Sensor net deployment. Once we start to plant bases near the shore and planned periphery of our landmass, planting sensors under base sites will be pivotal to getting the most out of our defenses.

Let me clarify our objectives regarding SPs and the way they interact with our terraforming needs. 1) We REQUIRE the HGP, and even when we have it, we'll be above the bureaucracy limit, so we'll still be limited, by and large, to working 1 square per base. 2) PTS, this too should be a high priority project, the second one we complete, if I have my druthers. With these 2, we can maximise population growth, and will skyrocket up in productive capability. 3) WP: While this would be nice to get, I think a fast rush toward tree farms will make the interim utility of this project pretty insignificant. If we can get it, great, but we shouldn't need it.

	20-07-2004 10:27									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks for kicking this off -SaFaN-, I don't mind at all.

I recommend that we road first (N of Morgan Metallurgy for instance) and expand inwards using rushed former fleets. Forest nut specials and staying out of the arid, given our start should see us pretty well off.

I think someone said that is is possible to found bases on top of forest, like you could for sensors, If this is true:

1/2/1 Forest base
2/3/2 +1/+1/+1 from the base square
3/4/3 +1/+1/+1 from rectanks
3/4/4 +0/+0/+1 from FM (and another +0/+0/+1 post wealth)

Add treefarms and maybe hybrids as they come into the picture.

Oh, and don't forget the defense bonus.

Can anyone confirm that it works? And can sensors and forest coexist?

--CTO #endgame

	20-07-2004 11:17									#5
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You get the defensive bonus for the forest, but it doesn't improve the resources collected at the base square. Forest is one of the only places I put sensors. Farms usually end up with condensors or solars, neither of which can coexist with sensors. Boreholes can't have sensors. I don't remember if mines can. My intuition says no.

	20-07-2004 13:14									#6
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quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda You get the defensive bonus for the forest, but it doesn't improve the resources collected at the base square. Forest is one of the only places I put sensors. Farms usually end up with condensors or solars, neither of which can coexist with sensors. Boreholes can't have sensors. I don't remember if mines can. My intuition says no.

Terrain has four "slots", each can be claimed by one thing exclusively:
#1: nut bonus / min bonus / en bonus
#2: road / mag
#3: farm / forest
#4: mine / solar / cond / sensor / ...

I donīt know about boreholes... can they be built at a farmed tile?
And fungus... it changes itīs properties over time...

	20-07-2004 13:15									#7
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame 1/2/1 Forest base 2/3/2 +1/+1/+1 from the base square 3/4/3 +1/+1/+1 from rectanks 3/4/4 +0/+0/+1 from FM (and another +0/+0/+1 post wealth)

Are you sure foresting a square will result in 2 nuts? I thought it was just one at the beginning, and is changed with tree farms only?

Sorry for doublepost....

	21-07-2004 02:48									#8
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I thought a base was by default 2 nuts/1 energy/2 mins, unless on a river or some other special.

	21-07-2004 07:43									#9
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Seems like I'm wrong, but if we want to make a couple of fortress bases fores+senso would be a good thing. I haven't actually tested it since I've been busy with Uni and debugging ModMan.

	21-07-2004 11:48									#10
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Micha, I don't think you can mine a forest, and a borehole replaces a forest.

	21-07-2004 13:48									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah, youīre right. Itīs not a good model, just based on what I could think of in a hurry...

Anyway, I think Iīll be going to test the ressource thingie now.

	21-07-2004 14:37									#12
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Allright, my testing produced these results:

At SE effect economy+1, as we started, each base square produces
2-1-2
If on a river, energy is increased by 1.
If on a special resource, that resource output is incresed by 2.

Forests, elevations, rainfall and flat/rolling have NO EFFECT.

I didnīt test the effects of jungle, uranium, geothermal shallows, mesa, volcano and ridge; But a base built on a borehole will produce 2-1-2 only!!!

	21-07-2004 16:34									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My guess then is that only the defence mods of T-Forming affect the square.

--CTO #endgame

	21-07-2004 21:00									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The landmarks (except the borehole cluster) do give resource bonuses at the base square.

	21-07-2004 21:39									#15
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Can you provide any data on this? What about Unity wreckage and Manifold?

	21-07-2004 21:41									#16
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has the effects of t-forming on a base square def been tested out?

	21-07-2004 22:09									#17
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U-Flats and Ridge are +1 energy; Crater is +1 mineral; Volcano is +1 mineral and +1 energy; Jungle is +1 nutrient. I don't think the mesa has any bonuses. I don't have too much experience with the Shallows, but I think you get +1 energy.

	21-07-2004 22:11									#18
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Shallows are indeed +1 energy, and the mesa has good elevation, which is nice if you're contemplating making it into an Energy park, but otherwise pretty worthless.

	23-07-2004 12:54									#19
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I have found that forest under a base does not provide any defense.