22-07-2004 17:27									#1
	Britain is a small Island Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

English. Vanilla CIVIII.
My 3 souts reported within several turns that we are on a small isolated Island, so I went for Map Making and built a galley to explore the 'land' to the west - It turned up to be 2 SMALL islands.

So I built the GLighthouse and found the other CIVS - by trading with them I reached tech parity.

While I tried to decide between colonizing an empty spot on the main continent or to attack persia - the persians declared war on me - so I sent 5 swordsmen and a spearman (all my army) and took taurus.

I knew I had to expand so I sent additional 4 swordsmen and took susa and Persepolis (Persia didn't have horeses or iron - Immortals would have thrown me out of the main continent) and I even got a GL - so I built the FP in Persepolis.

It's an interesting game - but do I really have a chance to win it???

I plan to take more persian cities with knights in the near future.

Pic:
England

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	22-07-2004 17:28									#2
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Islands:

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	22-07-2004 17:30									#3
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Persia:

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	22-07-2004 17:34									#4
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England again:

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	22-07-2004 17:44									#5
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Sure you can win this game. Build a few more cities (dense spacing) on both the island and the main continent. That's very important! You don't have many space, so don't waste any and use wisely what's given to you. Irrigate them friggin' plains (you could've done this long ago). Then attack Persia, as long as their lack of resources hinders them to defend and they couldn't get a trade opportunity up. Continue with that blue civ (Germany? Korea?). Should look a lot friendlier then.

	22-07-2004 17:53									#6
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Thanks for the quick reply.

I should irrigate the planes - my workers were busy mining hills (production was more important to me - I needed those 8 swordsemen FAST) - thanks for noting this.

About the city spacing - I thought about building a city between York and Hastings and between York and Coventry > but they wouldn't have too many unused tyles - so I'm not sure

	22-07-2004 18:03									#7
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I would build at least at York-999 and Canterbury-999. May be another one at York-14 (numbers are numeric keypad directions), for some gold out of the sea. On the main continent, Susa-999 looks like a good additional site. Try to space your cities so, that by the mid of medieval age no tile inside your cultural borders is unworked (except far sea tiles, of course).

About mining hills before irrigating plains (you even mined some): Production early on is good, but usually growth is better.

And build 4-5 more workers, to get your production going ASAP. You can add them back to the cities later.

	22-07-2004 18:09									#8
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On a second thought, Canterbury-96 looks even better than Canterbury-999, since it doesn't take away a precious grassland tile. You can irrigate the grass and plant forest on the tundra and get a decent production out of that city.

	22-07-2004 22:34									#9
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You do not have many roads for such a small island and it is 20AD. So I would think you were not making enough workers early on. You should have all worked tiles improved with roads and mines or irrigated on a land of that size.

As soon as you knew you were on a small island, you needed to go to a very tight placement.

	22-07-2004 22:36									#10
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Oh and making sure to get in lots of coastal cities to be able to use as many coastal tiles as you could.

	22-07-2004 23:00									#11
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Your game is winnable, especially since you are in Vanilla Civ3 and you have the FP in Persepolis. That whole continental area around the Persians and the blue civ can be pretty productive around the Persepolis core. Conquer the Persians and that blue civ to the north and you'll be pretty stout.

I find it interesting that you don't have any garrison units in your England island. You must be really focusing all of your civ's resources on your defensive/offensive force in Persia. That's fine...I do that sometimes when I am strapped and can risk it. I guess if you have enough navy you don't need to worry. Maybe later on when you get bigger you can spring for a few fast units centrally located on the island to rush to defense if needed...or you can just rely on a big navy.

	22-07-2004 23:08									#12
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P.S. Pasargadae is yummy (with all those happy things)
and I would look into getting that horse to the east held by that brown civ (Russia?), after I took care of Persia.

	23-07-2004 00:01									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Mace Your game is winnable, especially since you are in Vanilla Civ3 and you have the FP in Persepolis. That whole continental area around the Persians and the blue civ can be pretty productive around the Persepolis core. Conquer the Persians and that blue civ to the north and you'll be pretty stout. I find it interesting that you don't have any garrison units in your England island. You must be really focusing all of your civ's resources on your defensive/offensive force in Persia. That's fine...I do that sometimes when I am strapped and can risk it. I guess if you have enough navy you don't need to worry. Maybe later on when you get bigger you can spring for a few fast units centrally located on the island to rush to defense if needed...or you can just rely on a big navy.

I don't have any garssion in England because other CIVS haven't discovered astronomy yet. (I have GL)

I Played some more - sorry for squeezing only one additional city in England - was too busy building knights for my persia campaign.

That 'blue civ' attacked me the same turn I attacked persia - so I had to stop the war with P1ersia after only 3 cities and wait 20 turns befor I could conquer the rest of Persia - not good.
I'll build a colony on that saltpeter next trun to get cavalary ASAP.

This leads me to another question - Should I attack the 'blue civ' (Geramny) with cavs or should I attack Russia: Germany should be an easy target (unless they get too many musketmen - they have saltpeter) - but the Russian front is closer to the FP and Russia is No2 CIV in score - so attacking it should weaken a strong opponenet.
Another consideration should be that I have good trade with Russia while I was recently at war (defencive) with Geramny.

PIC: Conquered Persia

	23-07-2004 00:02									#14
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PIC: Geramny

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	23-07-2004 00:03									#15
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Russia:

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	23-07-2004 02:21									#16
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SIV it is hard to make those types of deterination with a screenie. A save would let someone look at all the factors. Not to mention we still do not know what the game level is at.

Since it is 880AD and Germany has about two mines total, I am guessing it is around Warlord. In any event, I see no reason to be concerned about Germany, they should not be a threat until they can muster up Panzers.

Russia OTOH will be making its UU soon and that will not be be fun and they are much larger than Germany.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 23-07-2004 at 08:58

	23-07-2004 08:47									#17
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Looks like you should do alright. Concentrate forces and go for it before they get too tough.

	23-07-2004 09:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 SIV it is hard to make those types of deterination with a screenie. A save would let someone look at all the factors. Not to mention we still do not know what the game level is at. Since it is 880AD and Germany has about two mines total, I am guessing it is around Warlord. In any event, I see no reason to be concerned about Germany, they should not be a threat until they can muster up Panzers. Russia OTOH will be making its UU soon and that will not be be fun and they are much larger than Germany.

Actually they have 9 mines (7 of them in the pic) and it's regent - so It shouldn't be too difficult.

Thanks for the advice guys

	23-07-2004 17:15									#19
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Germany is food rich/shield poor. They shouldn't be too tough to take down. My GOODNESS that's a lot of food!

-Arrian

	23-07-2004 18:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Germany is food rich/shield poor. They shouldn't be too tough to take down. My GOODNESS that's a lot of food! -Arrian

And somehow all that food didn't help the Germany-AI

	24-07-2004 03:14									#21
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Well, I actually think you`re fairly big now. I think you should not attack anyone; just go on developing your continental cities as fast as you can.
You have two advantages:

1)Your insular possesions are fairly easy to defend, so you don`t need too much force out there. Send your units to the continent, and focus on science.
2)On the ocntinetnt, you have only two fronts, so you have only two countries which CAN really harm you.

Again, you`ve got a big coountry now; WAIT. Donpt attack anyone, play the peaceful Kissinger way, and stay up there. Focus on Culture and WOnders.

	24-07-2004 04:22									#22
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Why, why, why does the AI irrigate those deserts around Berlin? The floodplains and wheat should be providing more than enough food to compensate for the loss of a few food tokens to mines. Sigh.

	24-07-2004 23:56									#23
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You can't mine floodplain tiles.

	25-07-2004 00:41									#24
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You can mine desert, though, Kucinich.

quote: Why, why, why does the AI irrigate those deserts around Berlin?

	25-07-2004 01:19									#25
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Oh, I didn't realise some of those tiles were actual desert. It looked like the river was touching them.

	25-07-2004 15:40									#26
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SIV? Simian Immunodeficiency Virus?

Looks like you should have this game in the bag.

	26-07-2004 09:11									#27
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This seems to illustrate how odd the AI can be.

	26-07-2004 15:27									#28
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SIV, can you determine whether Russia has had her Golden Age yet ? (from wonders that match traits) Or would you trigger it as soon as the first cossack wins a battle ? If so, I would go for Germany.

	26-07-2004 16:50									#29
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Thanks for your advice - I'm now at the modern era and about to win - so you can stop giving your wonderful advice

	27-07-2004 03:36									#30
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What did you end up doing? Did you conquer the Germans, and prune the Russians? Or did you settle down and build? Or a little of both...

I would have been tempted to take away Russia's horses and iron right near the border there. If you were nefarious enough, you could do it by building towns on the border. heheh