23-07-2004 01:49									#1
	Crawlers and Terraforming Suffering from ads?

Hey folks.

I've been experimenting with different kind of spacings and crawling resources.

I noted that many players seem to prefer to crawl their base tiles leaving one, two, perhaps three for boreholes depending on their spacing.

What do you usually crawl? Some players have said it'd depend on what you need at a point in the game. Then what kind of terraforming do you usually go for on those tiles?

Obviously if I was to change terrains all the time, that'd be a waste of terraforming time and require a huge former fleet. For instance if I wanted to crawl nutrients, I terraform tiles for maximum nutrient benefits then later I want minerals, then I go back and terraform for minerals.

It doesn't seem like a good playing techinque but again perhaps I'm wrong?

How do you usually do it? An inquiring mind wants to know

	23-07-2004 03:02									#2
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Early: forests. They crawl for 2 mins, the max before restrictions are lifted, are quick, and spread. They're also not bad for workers to work directly, producing 1-2-1 or 1-2-2.

Mid: condensor-farms and boreholes. Condensor-farms come earlier if the WP is built. Condensor-farms produce nutrients, which become very important, and are prime targets for crawlers, as most of their production is nutrients. Boreholes simply produce the most direct factors of production of any tile, and the lack of nutrients is offset by the condensor-farms. Work these for maximum benefit. Consider raising land now, especially if you are short.

Late: Maybe build an energy park on some unoccupied land. Magtube your empire. Convert condensor-farms to enricher-condensor-farms. Raise land for more bases, unless the sea is particularly lucrative.

Very late: Work fungus. Don't bother planting it, it plants itself, with a little coaxing.

	23-07-2004 03:13									#3
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early-- minerals
later-nutrients
then energy

The focus early is on having enough minerals to get stuff built so you can pump out more crawlers faster. Then nutrients since growth is key-- but when you get treefarms and hybrids, most of your bases grow to maximum anyway so the key is energy

Terraforming . .. .

Early-- you need at least 1 tile giving 2 nutrients for faster growth for each base-- after that forests are quick terraforming for 2 minerals and don't need alteration for later usefulness.

beyond that I tend to mine or borehole rocky tiles and condensor/Farm some other tiles-- The timing can vary a lot depending on terrain, faction and the other factions

	23-07-2004 03:50									#4
	Re: Crawlers and Terraforming Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus I noted that many players seem to prefer to crawl their base tiles leaving one, two, perhaps three for boreholes depending on their spacing.

• Crawling base tiles makes sense. The tiles are close to the crawlers starting position == turn advantage
  
• The base tiles are usually not all worked by workers in the early game
  
• Formers can pre-road and pre-form the base tiles faster than they can terraform far away
  
• base tiles are easier to defend
  

Yeah, boreholes are obviously where you want your workers, once you have restrictions lifted.

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus What do you usually crawl? Some players have said it'd depend on what you need at a point in the game. Then what kind of terraforming do you usually go for on those tiles?

I don't understand the second part of the question: What tiles?
Early game: Like Chaos Theory, I crawl forests or specials. 4-6 crawlers per base typically brings it to ecodamage =
Mid game: I crawl condensors only, for the most part. Workers on 2-2-1 tree-farm forests and 6-6 boreholes. Extra crawlers to secret projects or SSC
Late game: Crawlers don't matter much here. Energy parks are really fun though.

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Obviously if I was to change terrains all the time, that'd be a waste of terraforming time and require a huge former fleet.

That's the most important consideration with terraforming: time, and whether you have to re-form it later. This is why it's good to decide before you even start: Am I going to lay as many boreholes as possible in a grid? Am I going to use tight base spacing or loose? Make the decision, then make the land comply with your plan, unless it's really weird, like an all ocean world.

Mines: 4 minerals on a square you'll later want to re-form. I avoid these, except on specials of course.

Solar: Often superceded by Hybrid Forests and definately by condensor-borehole. I avoid these too, except for a few river specials perhaps.

Forest: Road first if needed.

Borehole: I lay these on a grid. I know it's ugly, but you can pack quite a few in if you are thoughtful.

Condensors: If I have the space, these go outside the base radius, since workers will never want them, but their city wants the nuts.

Raise Land: Overlooked by many players, this is how to keep a tight and dense empire with good efficiency. I start raising land as soon as possible.

My 2 EC's on the subject.

	23-07-2004 06:30									#5
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smacksim: Why would you *ever* have the space to put condensors outside base radii once you can plop down enough condensors??

Space deserves bases. If it can't accept bases, it probably can't accept condensors either (for example, a war zone).

	23-07-2004 06:43									#6
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Or you can be stupid like they AI and crawl fungus squares just for the heck of it...

	23-07-2004 06:47									#7
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Gaians could craw 2-3 nut fungal squares...

	23-07-2004 07:03									#8
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Crawling fungus isn't all bad. As the Gaians, of course, you get 2 nutrients, but there's another situation: taking advantage of an AI pactmate. Here's how you do it:

Send formers into your pactmate's territory. Start planting fungus. Move in supply crawlers and harvest the fungus (no matter what you get). Then terraform the fungus tiles back to something productive. Since you're crawling the tiles, the AI still can't work them, and you've created useful territory for yourself. Just don't lose the pact, which usually means doing this with a submissive.

	23-07-2004 07:53									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory smacksim: Why would you *ever* have the space to put condensors outside base radii once you can plop down enough condensors?? Space deserves bases. If it can't accept bases, it probably can't accept condensors either (for example, a war zone).

While I agree that in absolute terms, every available space should be in a base radius because population == power, in practice it's fun to make energy parks and condensor parks. Often on Huge or bigger maps I'll have a 10x10 area in the center of a continent that can fulfill both duties. It can add to the storyline as well if you prohibit yourself from certain terraforming in certain locations (ie zoning laws )

	26-07-2004 00:11									#10
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Energy parks work because typically they are on arid and rocky highlands where nutrients would be scarce. Diverting the energy to large cities that already have facilities to take advantage of the energy gives you a higher return than 2-3 cities on in the same location each with the same facilities to maintain.

Also, cutting back on bases can help you stay within efficiency limits (if you are of a mind to worry about that).

	26-07-2004 00:43									#11
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Yeah, what is actually the most bases one can found on say a standard sized map, a starting efficiency of zero and running Demo/Green/Knowledge (+5 effic). Also, does having more then +5 effic then give less quickly bureaucrazy drones or stops it there?

	26-07-2004 01:10									#12
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Standard sized map (on transcend): 6 base limit.
For +5 effic, multiply by (4 + 5)/4 to get 13.5 -> 13.

As far as I can tell, any achievable efficiency has its full effect on bureaucracy and efficiency losses. Unbalanced sliders losses of course bottom out at 0, and though I haven't checked exactly how they work for very low effic, as long as the penalties are large (-16% labs, -32% econ for 60/40 anyone?), no one will accept them.

	26-07-2004 04:48									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Playing as Cyborgs, and doing Demo/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic you get +9 efficiency. On Transcend Level and on a standard map, you can build 19 bases, while with the same conditions and on citizen level, that number increases to 52...

	26-07-2004 06:13									#14
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Yep efficiency works as advertised, I note expected changes even at the extremes and no rollover problems.