24-07-2004 06:26									#1
	After the Rhurpott strike Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

After the Strike, we are going to do 1 of 2 things:

1) get the h#ll back out

2) Trash as much as we can, then get the h*ll out

How about a 3rd Option

3) Get back onto the boats, then come up behind GCA, while CFC had their Front occupided and help with trashing them some. If anything, we can run rampet through their area, tearing up roads and pilliging the countryside.

E_T

	24-07-2004 06:35									#2
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I'm still for #2 just in case GWT does get another GL...

With little or no cities for the FP, no matter where it is, it can't do much good.

	24-07-2004 06:42									#3
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I like going after GCA, but part of me saying that is simply out of spite. It really depends on the situation. We really won't know until after the strike. Depends on how many units we have left, whether or not we see a strong resistance.

Ultimately, we'll just have to wait and see.

	24-07-2004 06:44									#4
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2, then 3.

--Togas

	24-07-2004 07:03									#5
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Nice one Togas!

	24-07-2004 07:08									#6
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Just got word, CFC Fleet is 7-7-7-7-7-4-4-4-4 from KH.

* E_T runs to find a map....

E_T

	24-07-2004 07:12									#7
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I'm still for #2 just in case GWT does get another GL...

You realize, of course, the longer we stay there and fight the more chances GWT has to get a leader, defeating the purpose of going there in the first place?

If we're able to pull this off we should leave immediately, leaving as few units behind as possible. If we burn Ruhrpott and only leave 3-4 units for them to kill then the chances of them getting another GL are minute.

Of course, if CFC's going to land (and die) that changes things...

	24-07-2004 07:37									#8
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E_T just mentioned in chat about how GWT might be doing a wonder prebuild somewhere over there!

This changes things totally. I wouldn't put it past GWT by any means to do something like that.

Ugh...

I don't like it, but I think with this in mind we may have to stick around and make sure we burn everything within a ring of Ruhrpott. If we don't, then we risk failing anyways. The chances of them getting a GL and rebuilding their FP are less than them being able to rebuild it if they have a wonder prebuild - which would be a 100% shot.

So... let our brave Knight force do what it must. Burn the landscape to the ground.

	24-07-2004 07:53									#9
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Some ad-hoc emergency planning:

We can get everything into Ruhrpott that survives the initial landing - Everything that survives should go into that city and fortify. If we're lucky GWT won't have a large force in the area, and we'll be able to take down the surrounding cities the turn after we take Ruhrpott. If GWT has little in the area, we should be able to get 5 Muskets + 30 Knights (minus any losses) fortified in Ruhrpott, a size 11 city. That means the Muskets will have a defense of 8 and Knights a defense of 6, giving us a nice advantage even in straight-up Ansar-VS-Knight battles with GWT attacking.

The turn we take Ruhrpott, we should torch the landing city to make sure we don't help out GWT in any way, then spread out from Ruhrpott in every direction, taking every adjacent city from Ruhrpott. That will take out all of GWT's second core, and all possible wonder prebuild locations. The best candidates are Balken and Eichenküste, since the others have finished Aquaducts fairly recently, or don't have enough good tiles to produce good shield output. Both Balken and Eichenküste have had many tile improvements around them for quite some time, along with shielded grass and bonus food to grow.

	24-07-2004 07:54									#10
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Makes you wish that Palace builds show on the F7 screen.

This "new" info you present is not really new. The chances for it have always been there since the FP was built. It's just that you had not considered it before.

I have always maintained that with no cities/population to support a FP does almost nothing for you.

What would the team think about putting together a secondary strike force to land for another strike against GWT or GCA in ~ 10-15 or even 20 turns from now?

It would not have the numbers of our current strike force, but something that can inflict damage. GWT will likely spread out it's forces so that it can reach any one tile within one turn after this intial strike is over. With that being the case, they can't can't have enough troops in any one spot to totally wipe out any sort of landing we make as long as we send sufficient number of troops along. Sort of a "hit and run." What number would that be? We'll have to wait and see what kind of military strength GWT has after this strike has done some damage....

	24-07-2004 08:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Just got word, CFC Fleet is 7-7-7-7-7-4-4-4-4 from KH. * E_T runs to find a map.... E_T

Do we know what CFC's fleet will consist of? Will they be able to do any damage at all, or are they simple going there to waste units?

	24-07-2004 08:04									#12
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That would be great, BF, to drop a 15 knight force at different parts of the map every 15 turns. Eat up some of the outlying regions and force them to defend their long coastline. Keeping them on the defensive would go along ways to help us defend against similar moves on us.

	24-07-2004 08:20									#13
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Makes you wish that Palace builds show on the F7 screen. This "new" info you present is not really new. The chances for it have always been there since the FP was built. It's just that you had not considered it before. I have always maintained that with no cities/population to support a FP does almost nothing for you.

Well, if you have no shot at rebuilding the FP (aka no shot or very very little at getting a GL) then it doesn't matter, because all of those cities will be 95% corrupt anyways. Even size 20 cities will be next to worthless. Especially with their levels of WW.

I feel the threat of them having a Palace prebuild is much greater than them getting a GL (especially in the case of the latter we can simply sneak in, burn the city down with a few units, then leave (assuming they have no army in the area ), giving them very very little chance at a GL). Giving them a GL is something we can minimize the chances of - them having a prebuild is NOT, and we must do everything we can to eliminate that risk.

quote: What would the team think about putting together a secondary strike force to land for another strike against GWT or GCA in ~ 10-15 or even 20 turns from now? It would not have the numbers of our current strike force, but something that can inflict damage. GWT will likely spread out it's forces so that it can reach any one tile within one turn after this intial strike is over. With that being the case, they can't can't have enough troops in any one spot to totally wipe out any sort of landing we make as long as we send sufficient number of troops along. Sort of a "hit and run." What number would that be? We'll have to wait and see what kind of military strength GWT has after this strike has done some damage....

I disagree. Ansar can reach 18 tiles away in only 2 turns (which is what we'd need to land and then attack/capture anything) - it's 18 tiles from Flammburg (center in the east) to Wiesental (far northern city just above Ruhrpott). They'd only need a group in the east and a group in the west to completely decimate anything we land anywhere on their continent.

	24-07-2004 08:22									#14
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Do we know what CFC's fleet will consist of? Will they be able to do any damage at all, or are they simple going there to waste units?

IIRC something like 10 Riders and 2 Muskets. I have no idea what they're planning on doing with them, but they probably won't accomplish anything besides giving GWT more of a chance at another GL (which is something I tried to convey in chat to one of their members a little while ago).

	24-07-2004 09:13									#15
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The Babylon II Flip Calculator is telling me that if we took Ruhrpott and got all 11 remaining citizens as resistors, the first turn would carry a 19% chance of flip, assuming a garrison of 30 units.

If we took and didn't raze Balken and Elfenhain on the same turn that we took Rhurpott (thereby reducing the number of tiles in Ruhrpott's radius under enemy control), the chance falls a bit, to 15%

	24-07-2004 10:29									#16
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Ye GODS what a nightmare that would be. However, it would mean no MGL or FP for GWT, even though they would have Ruhr back. In fact their OCN corruption would be even worse.

	24-07-2004 12:30									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep The Babylon II Flip Calculator is telling me that if we took Ruhrpott and got all 11 remaining citizens as resistors, the first turn would carry a 19% chance of flip, assuming a garrison of 30 units. If we took and didn't raze Balken and Elfenhain on the same turn that we took Rhurpott (thereby reducing the number of tiles in Ruhrpott's radius under enemy control), the chance falls a bit, to 15%

We might not want to raze the city upon taking it, but I definatley don't want to hold onto it through the next turn.

So, perhaps, we need to make a decision about that soon...

Do we imediatley raze the city, gettting slaves in the process but losing the ability to use the roads nearby to possibly attack a nearby stack on Ansar?

I say we leave the city intact once we capture it, and then abandon it at the end of our turn. That way we can check for surrounding forces of Ansar and make appropriate attacks/decisons based upon what we see.

	24-07-2004 12:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I disagree. Ansar can reach 18 tiles away in only 2 turns (which is what we'd need to land and then attack/capture anything) - it's 18 tiles from Flammburg (center in the east) to Wiesental (far northern city just above Ruhrpott). They'd only need a group in the east and a group in the west to completely decimate anything we land anywhere on their continent.

How can Ansar 'decimate' a stack of Muskets? Muskets are cheaper than Ansar. The Muskets would have the numbers advantage (albeit slight depending on terrain.
Having Knights, or even Calvary in the near future (heck, we'll even have rifflemen before they get to Calvary!) will make our counter attack on the Ansar devastating for them. Once we take their FP we will outproduce them, period. Once that happens and we produce more Muskets/Knights than they can produce Ansar, then we slowly whittle away at them. Keeping them on the defensive can not be dismissed lightly. If we keep the battle over there we go tthe game in the bag.

	24-07-2004 23:57									#19
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E_T back, Trip back into action. It's like in the past days.

What Trip mentions about #2 is very true of course. I am but pondering whether to choose #1 or #2. I want them to have as much damage as possible, but the more damage we do, the bigger the chance that whole effort was for nothing: they get a GL.

Where is the balance between doing as much damage as we can and on the other hand assuring that they don't get a GL?

Option 3 is not so bad, but aren't we going to arrive when the battle if already fought there?

Aidun

	25-07-2004 00:00									#20
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I now vote for Option #4

"4) There is no Rhurpott strike..."

	25-07-2004 00:06									#21
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Smart A$$!

	25-07-2004 00:53									#22
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such an ironic thread...