27-07-2004 20:53									#91
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That's not good for anybody.

Indeed, that's why the PRC and Russia classified the "Missile Shield" as destablising.

Furthermore, they have reasons to believe that any such system is a US bid to be able to launch a first strike with impunity. As long as the first strike could eliminate enough ICBMs so the surviving number drops below what the ABM system can intercept. Thus, they see it as an attempt to eliminate MAD to give the US the ability to issue nuclear blackmail.

	27-07-2004 20:54									#92
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Even NK isn't going to lob a nuke at the US unless Pyongyang was being overrun.

Another good reason for the system

	27-07-2004 20:54									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Furthermore, they have reasons to believe that any such system is a US bid to be able to launch a first strike with impunity. As long as the first strike could eliminate enough ICBMs so the surviving number drops below what the ABM system can intercept. Thus, they see it as an attempt to eliminate MAD to give the US the ability to issue nuclear blackmail.

	27-07-2004 20:55									#94
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I don't believe that the US is going to invade NK.

	27-07-2004 20:56									#95
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Yes, but it's best to keep your options open

	27-07-2004 20:59									#96
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The question is cost versus benefit

	27-07-2004 21:00									#97
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quote: Yes, but it's best to keep your options open

you'll probably be invading without the blessing of japan, skorea, china, and russia.

	27-07-2004 21:01									#98
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quote: I'm saying that this guards against the least likely method of delivery of a nuke to the US.

What makes you think we aren't trying like mad to develop defenses against all delivery methods?

quote: Even NK isn't going to lob a nuke at the US unless Pyongyang was being overrun.

But they can say that they will, even if they're not. They're building ICBMs in order to be able to say that. The risk is unacceptable.

	27-07-2004 21:03									#99
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The same thing was once said by navy people about aircraft sinking ships.

The difference being that the guy who proposed sinking ships with planes then went out and proved that planes could sink ships (thereby ending his career, too). Here, the people saying you can shoot down a missile with another missile have missed every single friggin' time they didn't cheat!!!!!

Guess what, if the NK fires a nuke at us, they aren't going to fire it from next to the US radar base, nor are they gonna tie a big balloon to the warhead to single it out from all the decoys. :rolleyeys:

	27-07-2004 21:06									#100
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If we invade NK we lose the ability to let them invade SK and Japan over that whole female/female reproduction crap.

	27-07-2004 21:07									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That's why it's in development. Duh.

Sorry, but this one isn't in development. It's in deployment, duh! There's a big difference between spending $20 on creating and testing a new system, and spending $20 billion on a system that does not work and will have to be completely rebuilt with new technology once the technology finally works!

How would you like me to sell you something that doesn't work, on the promise that some day in the future, I might sell you a working version?

	28-07-2004 03:47									#102
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So virtually all land-based threats against US come from North or West. Only South America is an exception to this.

!!!

We must put up another shield in the south to protect from Argentina. Those lousy argentinians!

	28-07-2004 03:52									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Indeed, that's why the PRC and Russia classified the "Missile Shield" as destablising. Furthermore, they have reasons to believe that any such system is a US bid to be able to launch a first strike with impunity. As long as the first strike could eliminate enough ICBMs so the surviving number drops below what the ABM system can intercept. Thus, they see it as an attempt to eliminate MAD to give the US the ability to issue nuclear blackmail.

what president would take a chance on that?

They have to know the U.S. would never strike first.

	28-07-2004 03:54									#104
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and I was under the impression that NK did have nukes that could reach the U.S.

I remember reading a local article that NK nukes do have the ability to reach the Hoover Dam. That's about the extent of their range.

or maybe that was china they were talking about? I'm not sure.

	28-07-2004 08:07									#105
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That would be China. NK doesn't even get to Hawaii, but they can get all of Japan.

	28-07-2004 08:52									#106
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New weapons never make the world safer. Look what happened when the first nuclear bomb was built.

	28-07-2004 08:54									#107
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No more world wars...

	28-07-2004 09:00									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No more world wars...

Perhaps nuclear weapons have prevented world war (not war). If these weapons work it will destablize that condition.

	28-07-2004 12:21									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident They have to know the U.S. would never strike first.

That is entirely uncertain.

When the MAD doctrine is effective, it makes sure any country that strikes first will not escape unscathed. However, it seems that the US has been trying to change this balance of terror ever since Reagan's Star Wars plans.

	28-07-2004 14:04									#110
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Exactly! As far as those people are concerned, there is no telling what the US might do if they think they can get away with it.

You have to keep in mind that the US is already notorious for its "pre-emptive strike" policy...

Basically, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, we don't know anything.
The US can pretty much do whatever the f@?! it feels like and has been known to take advantage of that little fact on more than a few occasions...

Last edited by Guardian on 28-07-2004 at 14:15

	28-07-2004 14:25									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No more world wars...

Because the US and Soviet Union were the only superpowers left. Nuclear deterence might have staved off all out war between the US and Russia, but it certainly didn't stop localized conflicts.

The US killed over 3 million people in Southeast Asia in the Vietnam War. And look at the Middle East, or India versus Pakista, how about the Persian Gulf? Or the violence in Africa? There's been just as much war going on in the nuclear age as there was before. It's just blind luck that the leaders of the US and SU (interesting, the abbreviations) allowed cooler heads to prevail during the Cold War.

	28-07-2004 18:14									#112
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Oh, and by the by, any ICBM launched against the US from anywhere east of the Azores would be sent eastward around the globe to take advantage of rotation of the earth.

That is an interesting piece of information, but it seems counter-intuitive to me. What advantage could a missile gain from planet rotation? If anything, wouldn't it make more sense to send the missile West, as the Earth's rotation would then put the target (a little) closer?

	28-07-2004 18:33									#113
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It's to do with helping the rocket achieve escape velocity. see here:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/satellite2.htm

That's also why rockets are launched from as close to the equator as possible.

	28-07-2004 18:50									#114
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Oh, that explains it. Now I see why the ESA chooses to launch from French Guyana. Thanks MikeH.