28-07-2004 14:05									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue This just seems anti-democratic, and dare I say it, fascist.

How so?

There's nothing democratic about joining the police force or its policies. If you run afoul of its rules and regulations you'll be dismissed, simple as that.

	28-07-2004 14:13									#62
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Do you really want to compare anti-terror laws in the US and UK? You wouldn't like the answer you'd get.

Come on then smartarse...don't think you can call my bluff on this one...compare away rather than make glib comments.

	28-07-2004 14:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue And Provost, before your latest meandering little whines, I suggest you read the first post of this thread again. Carefully this time.

No Stewart, the point I made was quite valid for the debate...answer to it...

	28-07-2004 14:26									#64
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Well I was saying, if it is a legitimate and registered political party, you shouldn't be discriminated against for being a part of it.

"I won't discriminate against you politically, so long as I agree with your politics!"

Or do you not believe in political freedom?

	28-07-2004 14:31									#65
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It seem an unusual angle for the police to tackle it from, but BNP policy is (supposedly) the antithesis of what the modern police force are supposed to stand for. The BNP, has they have been demonstrating recently, are not that 'legitimate' a party as they would have you believe...

	28-07-2004 14:36									#66
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Are you for political freedom or not?

Or just the political freedom of people and parties whose beliefs are close to yours?

	28-07-2004 14:42									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Are you for political freedom or not? Or just the political freedom of people and parties whose beliefs are close to yours?

What does this have anything to do with political freedom?

	28-07-2004 14:43									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What does this have anything to do with political freedom?

	28-07-2004 14:45									#69
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We are not talking political freedoms here though. If they were just a plain anti-immigration, nationalist party then it wouldn't be an issue. Hell, the UK independence party or the Tories even follow that line...and they are not an issue. But it is all the other crap that goes with the BNP, the criminal history of it's executive and it's involvement in hate crimes. Do you think a boring old right wing party would court this amount of controversy for no reason?

	28-07-2004 14:47									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue

What does racial discrimination have anything to do with political freedom?

	28-07-2004 15:13									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue freedom of political affiliation isn't freedom to affiliate with a political party of the state's choosing, it's absolute freedom. And we plainly do not have that.

No, we don't. But this isn't about state, it's about the police force as an employer. If you work against your employers policies, they will fire you. If you're employer believes punctuality is paramount, and you don't, there is a problem. If your employer is committed to equal opportunities, and you aren't, there is a problem.

	28-07-2004 15:28									#72
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Drogue, then it comes down to what employers are allowed to discriminate on.

They are allowed to discriminate on time-keeping skills.

They aren't allowed to discriminate on race.

Do you think they should discriminate on political beliefs?

And "equal opportunities" are a sham and always will be designed to give an unfair an unnecessary advantage to anyone who isn't a white male.

	28-07-2004 15:37									#73
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They are allowed to discriminate on anything that is contrary to doing your job. Being a racist is contrary to being a police officer, who is supposed to actively encourage race relations.

And your comment shows just that. They're committed to equal opportunities, you're not, hence you couldn't do that job.

	28-07-2004 15:38									#74
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"Being a racist is contrary to being a police officer, who is supposed to actively encourage race relations."

OK, fair enough, if racist behaviour is displayed then I would completely agree with you.

	28-07-2004 17:04									#75
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This only seems unreasonable if you accept Park Avenue's fantasy world view of the BNP.

	28-07-2004 17:08									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Being a racist is contrary to being a police officer, who is supposed to actively encourage race relations.

I thought they were supposed to catch criminals.

	28-07-2004 17:10									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Come on then smartarse...don't think you can call my bluff on this one...compare away rather than make glib comments.

Molly already took the sting out of this one. It'd be less fun now but I can list some specfic provisions of various laws if you truely insist.

	28-07-2004 17:28									#78
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I truly insist. And then when I am back from work, we can look into the Patriot Act

	28-07-2004 17:30									#79
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Nice one Prov. Can't wait for a bit of good ol' Yank-Limey bashing

	28-07-2004 17:34									#80
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to the UK police.

An employee should never be fired for their political beliefs. However, they could be fired if their political action interferes with their mission.

Policemen tend to be far right more often than not, and it makes no sense forbidding them to join the party that corresponds them. However, these BNP policemen should be monitored, and ruthlessly fired as soon as they do something illegal.

	28-07-2004 18:01									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I truly insist. And then when I am back from work, we can look into the Patriot Act

Somehow I think I know more about my part of the deal than you do about yours. But once I get back from work, I'll do the same. I'll be heading out in an hour so I don't have at the moment.

	28-07-2004 19:13									#82
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quote: An employee should never be fired for their political beliefs. However, they could be fired if their political action interferes with their mission.

And that is the crux of the problem. It seems many here can't draw the line between political beliefs and political action. If a person has been judged to be a good cop and then joins the BNP, why should he be sacked? His actions have shown that he is a good cop. His beliefs shouldn't disqualify him... or else we get into the whole thoughtcrime side of things.

	28-07-2004 19:31									#83
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How can you be percieved to be a good cop if you are a racist? Especially in the current environment where they are desperately trying to get racism out of police force and recruit more minority police. Obviously being a racist does make you unable to perform a police job because you can't treat people fairly within the law.

It's just common sense. Unless you believe the BNP propoganda about them not being like they really are.

	28-07-2004 19:46									#84
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Yeh, but you have to demonstrate that you can't treat people fairly within the law before being fired. You're taking a mental shortcut that is ugly from a freedom of association standpoint.

	28-07-2004 19:47									#85
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quote: How can you be percieved to be a good cop if you are a racist?

It is to be proven that you are a racist simply for joining the BNP. There were people who joined the KKK back in the early part of the last century, who you'd never consider racist today (such as Senator Robert Byrd).

	28-07-2004 19:49									#86
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Why should people be allowed to be in antisocial, violent racist organisations that promote civil disorder and rioting?

And why would you want people like that in the police?

	28-07-2004 19:51									#87
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If they don't act on those beliefs in their job, then I say why not allow them into the police force?

	28-07-2004 19:56									#88
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Well... I suppose that's already the law because if they do stuff in, or out of their job they'll get arrested and you can't be a policeman if you have a criminal record.

And with something as esoteric as racism how can you tell if it's affecting their job or not? Joining the BNP is an official declaration that you are a racist. I don't see how you can allow admitted racists into the police.

	28-07-2004 20:00									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor to the UK police. An employee should never be fired for their political beliefs. However, they could be fired if their political action interferes with their mission. Policemen tend to be far right more often than not, and it makes no sense forbidding them to join the party that corresponds them. However, these BNP policemen should be monitored, and ruthlessly fired as soon as they do something illegal.

Agreed.

	28-07-2004 20:01									#90
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How can you allow admitted commies, Republicans, Labour/Tory members? As long as it doesn't affect the job why should you care what they do on thier off hours?