02-08-2004 06:00									#31
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I love VI as it was the first MM for me. Anyway zip the save and post it and I will see what I can. I have to play on my old machine as 6/7/8 no longer run for me on my hyper threading box.

	02-08-2004 09:45									#32
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here's my current save - the other 3 chars are now double promoted and the wizard has a small surplus of skill points while i pondered my options - also appears that mr malwick wants something of me hense being at the mercenary guild. ignore the excess junk in the inventories too - i keep wanting to save stuff for all sorts of reasons

Attachment: save005.zip
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	02-08-2004 10:18									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To bad I did not see the save before now. I ran a little test.

Here is the level at teh bridge control room:

Attachment: snap1.jpg
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	02-08-2004 10:18									#34
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Here is the pool drained:

Attachment: snap3.jpg
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	02-08-2004 10:21									#35
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I will load your save tomorrow and see if I can get the lich promoton. Is that what your struggling with? I normally do not bother to blast the friends at Celeste when I am Light. I did it in the first few runs, not not anymore.

	02-08-2004 17:10									#36
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 To bad I did not see the save before now. I ran a little test. Here is the level at teh bridge control room:

is the bridge an invisible bridge (the game does seem to have those)??? I threw that switch in there and nothing visible changed - it was more like a switch to revealing a hidden compartment rather than extending a bridge (sound is very short). I'll look through there again later. anyway since the zones seem to have respawned, heres an old save within the halls of mist

	02-08-2004 21:39									#37
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I could not get the bridge to open either. I figured it was due to some trigger missing, but who knwos what. I know it has been many years since I played dark.

I guess I will have to run a dark party next time.

I was not able to get the jars from the tunnel, they were gone. I tried to add them to the inventory, but it did not work. I flagged Alexis as having done that and it did not matter.

I even went to Castle Gloaming and the jars where not there. It looks like the only choice is to use the editor to make Alexis a Lich.

	02-08-2004 21:49									#38
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Let me mention a few things.

1) sell all the junk they are carrying. I would only have one column of blue potions. Maybe 4 to 6 moons a few empty bottles and a few stone to flesh. Store a few if you want in your chest in the castle.

2) Use the cloak of dark for anyone with dark magic.

3) dismiss the npc's. If you must have some, use those that can boost spell power or maybe a gate keeper until you get GM of water. You do not need more experience. This game can be won with very low level parties.

4) Do not put points into stealing, no need to use that skill. You will have more cash than you need most of the game.

5) Don't expert chain and leather, one or the other. You can only use one armor at a time. Don't put more than enough points to make the expert in skills like armor or shield.

6) Only put 10 points in Body magic. GM is plenty.

7) use the ore and sell the junk it yields, if anything good swap it in.

Here is a low level party:

Attachment: mm7_g13.jpg
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	03-08-2004 04:41									#39
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Let me mention a few things. 1) sell all the junk they are carrying. I would only have one column of blue potions. Maybe 4 to 6 moons a few empty bottles and a few stone to flesh. Store a few if you want in your chest in the castle.

since i'd been going on brute force most of the game i'd been using a lot of potions, just never got out of the habit of it i guess

quote: 2) Use the cloak of dark for anyone with dark magic.

doh, forgot i had that i even discarded the cloak of light when going dark...

quote: 3) dismiss the npc's. If you must have some, use those that can boost spell power or maybe a gate keeper until you get GM of water. You do not need more experience. This game can be won with very low level parties.

went with the one for unlimited identifying with a side bonus of exp, the other i had because i had no idea what kind of characters were needed for winning the game (originally had a banker until i figured out how to trade and get my gold up) and i do have a tendancy to go for the overkill

quote: 4) Do not put points into stealing, no need to use that skill. You will have more cash than you need most of the game. 5) Don't expert chain and leather, one or the other. You can only use one armor at a time. Don't put more than enough points to make the expert in skills like armor or shield. 6) Only put 10 points in Body magic. GM is plenty.

side effect of learning the game - never really sure what skills i needed and well, as you can see with
my wizard as i leveled up, completed challenges, found horseshoes and used lamps, well i have a few skill points to burn besides, its kinda neat being able to heal over 100 hp in a standard heal

quote: 7) use the ore and sell the junk it yields, if anything good swap it in.

been doing that - the ore i have atm is what i've picked up while in tatalia

quote: Here is a low level party:

as i learn more of what each skill does, i can certainly see how a low level party can clean up once you know where to find key items (ie i stole the riverstride plans using only invisibility - then wiped everyone out for good measure )

guess i'll edit in the 4 individual Lich jars so i can complete the quest - can't have an uncompleted quest now can I now that i've been completing everything i can find up until now maybe I'll see if i can find a max level?

	03-08-2004 06:51									#40
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I tried the individual jars and it did not seem to matter. I forget the dark, but in the light side if you do not finish the 4 quest form the underboss yo do not get to see the boss for the ;ast qust before you meet the real boss.

Since the are mirrors of each other, I am sure it is the same. You should be able to use the editor to flag it as done. You can make your wizard a lich. The only thing is you do not get the experience.

Edit to add PS, I did not try empty soul jars.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 03-08-2004 at 07:01

	03-08-2004 07:00									#41
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The thing is for body magic and healing, it is faster for you to TP or LB to a temple and heal. I use the heal spell as a touch up for small damage or in a pinch during a battle.

You can use power cure scrolls or soul drinker also to recover damage.

	03-08-2004 08:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I tried the individual jars and it did not seem to matter. I forget the dark, but in the light side if you do not finish the 4 quest form the underboss yo do not get to see the boss for the ;ast qust before you meet the real boss. Since the are mirrors of each other, I am sure it is the same. You should be able to use the editor to flag it as done. You can make your wizard a lich. The only thing is you do not get the experience. Edit to add PS, I did not try empty soul jars.

well i used the empty soul jars (1 in each char's inventory) and it let me complete the quest... and after the debacle with that quest and the problem in the castle, I'm developing doubts as to abililty to complete other quests

With the dark we do have 3 sub-quests from the advisors before you can complete the other advisor's quest. 2 were pretty simple - retrieve the altar pieces and retreive the soul jars (yeah, that case of soul jars) - the advisor had no problem taking the case of soul jars - 3rd seems to be clanker's labratory. and there's got to be some way to get to the huge treasure trove in the SE of the map (presumably where the magical defenses are) but the only lever or button i can find only reveals hidden treasure rooms. I even ran up against every wall and even jumped up on the beds, book cases, and lab counters and fountains - jumped in the floor hole and ran up against the walls facing several different directions trying to find a trigger and I'm about ready to put dark on hold and try the light version for a while

in case you want to take a look, here's the save

	03-08-2004 08:38									#43
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The two things about Clankers Lab are the library that has abook to open the door. It can be a pain to locate, even when you have done it 15 or more times like I have.

Just look at the top shelf for a book sticking out slightly. That is what you need to click on.

The room with the well like in the center is a doorway of sorts. You need to find the buttonon the south wall and them jump down the well/pit. Be sure to have a telekinesis scroll if you have not done down stair to unlock the cells.

	03-08-2004 08:47									#44
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Yes you are correct it is only three quest from Maximus, Kastor and Dark Shade. The four advisor requires you to do them before you get his quest.

I was tinking that the main man that gives you the proving quest tells you that you need to see is 4 advisors.

I just finished VIII, so I may start VII as dark soon. I want to see if it works correctly, if you do not visit the Walls until you have the quest for Lich promotion. I am sure it worked, but it has been a long time now.

I will have to think about if I want to do a no train or speed or just a casual run. I am thinking of doing it as a casual right now, so I will train at every chance I get. Not leave Emerald until I have train to level 5.

I will get the wand without any debt by having the dragonflies kill Malwick. Same for the chick with item for the scavenger hunt.

	03-08-2004 16:55									#45
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the girl with the lute has a price to pay other than the 500?

and i never went to celeste before getting quests in the pit because the teleporter to celeste didn't seem to work before choosing a light or dark path...

anyway, putting dark on hold for a period of time, trying light after i make sure i haven't missed any taverns (i've found 13)

	03-08-2004 20:22									#46
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There are only 13 taverns. Sally (seashell), Ailyssa (lute) and Malwick (wand) want a price for their items. You go out to the dragonflies and have them follow you into the area where those NPC's are and let the flies kill them.

Then you get the items for free. If you are not planning on getting off the island on day 1 (a must for speed play), you can train and hit the well again for 1000 gold. This can get you some skills.

Did you find the book to open the door in Clankers?

	05-08-2004 07:41									#47
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found i had forgotten to play at the tulurean forest inn... kinda annoying that the winning items were really of little use to me (+int and personality for the thief, chainmail for the wizard etc) also kinda annoying that the book that triggered the tunnel wasn't one reachable by just pressing the space bar on every section of the bookshelf... kinda annoying that the throne room is locked since i completed malwicks deed and can't get the next dark quest....

as for the emerald isle - it's the one area i'm pretty familiar with - usually didn't let the dragonflies onto the main village cause the fighter type mobs tried to kill them and i was still trying to maximize experience - did get the items from both once that way though was curious what malwick would want... only bothered once with buying the seashell before i figured out how to fight the dragonflies... did get to where i could kill everything on the island other than the dragon on the first day spent a bit of time trying to kill the dragon too, never got him below 33% though with level 5 chars

	05-08-2004 19:43									#48
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I think the castle will be closed for a month, not sure. I only do the arcomage when I am trying for a good score. The arco game crashes my game sometimes, so I do not play it.

Some of the loot can only be worn by certain classes and races anyway.

The best way to kill the dragon is to use the wand with a recharge scroll, if you can buy one.

I have done it with just bows though. I do that by facing the dragon and running backwards in real time while shooting non stop. If no scroll I use the wand up while the dragon kills the rats and then do the backward thing.

It is possible to detect the timing of the dragon fire and dodge it. I do that with a low level party for Wormax (not the corrct name, but close) in Tatalia. That is a huge cave and you can even shoot and run to heal or any combination.

I am putting together an html log of my dark run. It is a casual run and I just got the trumpet and finished the golem.

Using Sor/Thief/Cleric/Sor, a common party.

	07-08-2004 06:24									#49
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Ok I had no problem with the jars :

Attachment: jars.jpg
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	07-08-2004 06:25									#50
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Promotions worked:

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	07-08-2004 07:09									#51
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never thought i'd see this - was messing around killing minotaurs waiting for the throne room to open again, and my Lich (which is immune to mind attacks) was, um, affected by a mind attack

followup - Lich got put to sleep by another monster - this supposed to happen? when i cast spells at monsters with immunity - nothing happens...

ever seen an insane lich before?

Attachment: insane lich.jpg
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Last edited by SCG on 07-08-2004 at 08:30

	07-08-2004 07:14									#52
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Ok I had no problem with the jars :

well, good to know that i did find the right chest - just that it was completely devoid of jars...

	07-08-2004 11:10									#53
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quote: Originally posted by SCG never thought i'd see this - was messing around killing minotaurs waiting for the throne room to open again, and my Lich (which is immune to mind attacks) was, um, affected by a mind attack followup - Lich got put to sleep by another monster - this supposed to happen? when i cast spells at monsters with immunity - nothing happens... ever seen an insane lich before?

I can' recall it by then I cast my protections spells and especially grand master body magic's protection from magic.

On the other hand I don't play with a lich all that much in MM7. In MM8 I always use necros that become liches.

Well always is not correct. I have run a few solos and special party games that did not allow Necro/Lich.

	07-08-2004 11:13									#54
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quote: Originally posted by SCG well, good to know that i did find the right chest - just that it was completely devoid of jars...

I don't know what the sequence of events are that triggers the bug, but I suspect it is getting the soul jars from the mountain before either getting the quest for the lich or completing it.

I do not go to get the jars until I become a lich, that way no bug.

	07-08-2004 23:17									#55
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seems that it is much longer than a month that the throneroom doors get locked - i've been about 3 months (i've been training my chars individually, 1 level at a time, leave the trainer, go back, train 1 char 1 level etc) and my chars are now in the mid 70's... still locked out of the throneroom... wondering if we are looking at 1 game year... trying to avoid traveling between towns the old fashioned way to kill time to avoid getting messengers from malwick since he seemed to indicate he'll want another job from me... o well - hope i don't hit a level or skill or stat limit (couple of skills pushing 30, couple of stats pushing 200) i've recompleted several challenges - gotten to reuse several barrels too - no reissued quests though

	08-08-2004 07:33									#56
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To tell you the truth I only have a note on the lock out. Arrest are a year.

The best thing to do if oyu took the wand is to ignore the request for payment. That brings down goblins on Harmdale. You then have to kill them all and the shops will open.

If you take the tapestry from the castle (which depends on your path), it will lock down for a month.

So I am wondering if it is not counting down the time as long as the debt is outstanding.

IOW if you did not get the stuff to the Merc Guild, they should have trigger goblins. If your shops in town are closed, check all over the region for any goblins.

I am close to getting my run finished and a walk through in html. I am starting the Maze and have most of the main line quest done.

Maze, then tunnels and those are the most painful and annoying.
Minor pain at the mountain of the dragon caves, mainly climbing up there and getting it started.

Since I am not concerned with the score, I won't kill all the devils in the LoG.

	08-08-2004 07:39									#57
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quote: Originally posted by SCG - hope i don't hit a level or skill or stat limit (couple of skills pushing 30, couple of stats pushing 200) i've recompleted several challenges - gotten to reuse several barrels too - no reissued quests though

I am not sure, but IIRC it is levl 40 for a skill.

No quest will reappear, barrels will reset with every respawn of the region.

The highest I ever trained was about 110. I know someone the trained to 400 in MM6. I did one solo of 180 in MM8.

	08-08-2004 18:57									#58
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when i stole the tapestry, everyone went red - and the necros start summoning undead all over the place - and with my chars, 1 well placed arrow will kill a shade. and since its kinda hard to get passed the guards right at the entrance even when invisible, i killed them. I have a really bad habit of hitting attack a little too quickly since my chars are tough enough to take a couple extra hits and i have 3 chars that can heal (including souldrinker) i tend to have a bit of collateral damage - will killing anyone else delay that time to the point of respawn?

did a test - gave my Lich 100x current experience - trainer in Celeste will stop at level 200, skills stop at 60. don't think i'm hitting those anytime soon - i'm starting to need all of the zones to repop since i learned souldrinker... not sure if it was a good idea to clean out the temple of Baa in Avlee yet as i found a note from Xenofax... Side note - only time the game has let me into the Tulurean Forest Castle Cellar (even though i can see the door) was when i was completing the Villain quest - before i got the quest, i couldn't get in. after i completed the quest i couldn't get in. Also having problems with the Ninja quest (not sure if related or not) - started trying various words as the cipher on my own (first letter of the word can only be one of 2 letters)

Edit: I can't read... figured out my problem there

Last edited by SCG on 08-08-2004 at 19:58

	09-08-2004 05:42									#59
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You can only enter the Elf Castle treasure room after your are on the path and have the quest. By then it is worthless for loot and barrels are not important at that stage.

	09-08-2004 05:50									#60
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I finsihed the dark path run and have a log in html form. I screwed up and wasted a lot of time by doing the Champion quest and forgetting I was going Dark. That was a loss of about 30 days. Not to mention the energy clearing the arena 5 times at Knight level.

I was able to clear the pools and find the treasure beneath them, but the bridge never worked. I guess it was due to me not having the Merc debt. I just don't remember it any more for sure.

Dark Magic is too strong.