28-07-2004 17:12									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer it should be noted though that Saladin is credited for being the first to issue a jihad...

He issued a jihad against the christians, that's a fact, but it was in response to their crusades (holy war too). And they started the process.
And I would be very surprised it was the first. IIRC, Jihad is a word used in the Kuran and is the way Islam spread through north Africa to Spain, through Persia (Iran) to Pakistan and through Byzance to Yougaslavia and Caucassus.

	28-07-2004 17:17									#32
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Yep, there was quite some trade between the Mali and the Arabs (gold and slaves especially), and quite a few scholars went there (especially religious ones). However, only a few of these people bothered to describe the Mali way of life and history in written form. Ibn Battuta's writings are among the main sources of information about the Mali of the time, along with a few other written accounts that survived till today, oral tradition, and Portuguese accounts.

	28-07-2004 17:30									#33
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Another Arab chronicler was Ibn Fadlan. His accounts of the Rus (Vikings in Russia) are hilarious. Role model? Nah... Maybe if you're a bigot "They are the filthiest of God's creatures. They are like wild asses" etc etc.

	28-07-2004 17:50									#34
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Or how about that one from the 11th century, "The people north of the pyrenees are of fair complexion and of tall stature but are lacking all penetration of wit or intellect". somebody here (was it you evil knevil?) posted that

see how this **** works out? its in cycles. the europeans were filthy, stupid barbarians compared to the brilliant, enlightened, and humane muslims...

	28-07-2004 21:36									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Muhammad was a Muslim. As were Abraham and Issac.

Modern muslims claim Abraham and Issac were muslims but since they predate the existance of Islam this is doubtful. I believe if you asked Abraham or Issac they would have told you they were Jewish.

	28-07-2004 21:37									#36
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Not a one. You couldn't find one.

	28-07-2004 21:51									#37
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CharlesBHoff

	28-07-2004 22:00									#38
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Park Avenue

Although he's really more of a "negative non-Muslim" model

000

Muhammed Ali, and then there were certainly plenty of great Muslim thinkers during the European Dark Ages, I just can't think of any. I think they've already been mentioned though.

	28-07-2004 22:08									#39
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Mohammed Ali Jinnah- the first President of Pakistan and one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan- an incredible Qawwali singer who made Pavarotti sound like an amateur.

	28-07-2004 22:46									#40
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Right yeah. Think I'll follow the footsteps of one of them...

	28-07-2004 22:53									#41
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Ali G

	28-07-2004 23:03									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Modern muslims claim Abraham and Issac were muslims but since they predate the existance of Islam this is doubtful. I believe if you asked Abraham or Issac they would have told you they were Jewish.

Unless you believe the Muslim version of Prophetic history.

	28-07-2004 23:04									#43
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quote: Mohammed Ali Jinnah- the first President of Pakistan and one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.

"I have lived as plain Mr. Jinnah and I hope to die as plain Mr. Jinnah. I am very much averse to any title or honours and I will be more happy if there was no prefix to my name."
- Muhammed Ali Jinnah, 1942

	28-07-2004 23:04									#44
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starting dividing people according to religion is a bad enough start

	28-07-2004 23:08									#45
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founding fathers are way cool. It seems that this was the case for Pakistan, also.

	29-07-2004 00:28									#46
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Not necessarily. Quite a few founding fathers were complete bastards.

	29-07-2004 02:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Right yeah. Think I'll follow the footsteps of one of them...

You don't have a millionth of the genius Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan had in one of his little fingers, let alone in all his artistry.

Love of his music unites Sunni and Shi'ite Muslim, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs, and even ordinary apostate atheists like me.

I would also suggest the Aga Khan, Ulugh Beg, Ibn Battuta and Baaba Maal.

http://www.akdn.org/

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/s...tuta_Rihla.html

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~hi.../Ulugh_Beg.html


http://www.palmpictures.com/artists/baabamaal.html

	29-07-2004 08:48									#48
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Okay. How about positive Muslim role models in today's world that are widely respected by Muslim and non-Muslims alike?

	29-07-2004 08:56									#49
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 Ali G

Keep it real

	29-07-2004 09:01									#50
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Farid Esack. Helped fight against apartheid in South Africa alongside the other famous figures back in the 80's. Wrote Quran, Liberation, & Pluralism if I recall the title correctly. I've had the honor of actually seeing him speak and chatting with him quickly afterwards- a very smart yet moral man.

	29-07-2004 15:34									#51
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Hey Playor!

AliG and bin Laden are the two greatest role models for Muslims.

	29-07-2004 15:42									#52
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ali g (aka sasha baron-cohen) is jewish btw

and i certainly agree with ibn battuta, has anyone read the story of his travels? amazing stuff

	29-07-2004 15:51									#53
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Jewish? Who cares...he looks da G man!

	29-07-2004 18:56									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Jewish? Who cares...he looks da G man!

Tell me PA, did your mother think paintstripper was a cure for morning sickness?

	29-07-2004 19:36									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Tell me PA, did your mother think paintstripper was a cure for morning sickness?

Evil... and you felt the need to make personal insults why?

Discuss the topic... don't insult the posters. Next time you do so, you will be restricted without any additional warnings....

	30-07-2004 12:14									#56
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Ming:

but stewart is a word that begins with a pr and ends with the nickname for a guy named Richard.

even i'm not this much of an a-hole

	30-07-2004 12:28									#57
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Plato, Hannibal, and Cleopatra were both Muslim *and* black.

	30-07-2004 12:30									#58
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its crazy how many people think Hannibal and Cleopatra were black... stupid niggers

	30-07-2004 12:46									#59
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The debate rages on. I think the current theory says Cleopatra was Greek.

Maybe she was a Greek/black mix.

	30-07-2004 12:49									#60
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if anything Greek/Egyptian but thats doubtful