29-07-2004 01:00									#1
	Conquest Tech Trades and Peace Treaties Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

One of the frustration in Conquest is that the AI is sooo stingy about trading techs. The AI could be cash starved and resource starved, but will still refuse any good tech trade.

I have found out (I'm probably not the first) that the AI will trade techs in conjunction with a peace treaty. I tried this several times in my recent game and it worked every time.

I would offer a "stand alone" tech deal and the answer is always NO!!. Then I would offer in conjuction with a peace treaty, and they would deal. I had to pay alot of gold, but that is understandable.

I suppose one factor that played into the deals was that my reputation was almost perfect. I had not violated any deals. I had one short war during Ancient Age and had taken 3 cities, but that was all.

A second factor was that in most cases (all?) the AI was weaker or average compared to my military.

So have other seen this? Con other provide more insight?

	29-07-2004 01:41									#2
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I've noticed this in C3C with respect to conquering a civ. They seem far less willing than in PTW to part with their precious tech to save their lives.

Beating knowledge out of the AI certainly appears more difficult than before. I find them more willing to part with cities than tech now... :???:

	29-07-2004 03:28									#3
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Yup, in AU 503 I beat the everlovin' crap outta civ after civ, trying to climb up from a Grand Canyon of tech arrears.

I finally gave up on it for the most part, and decided to enjoy the carnage for its own sake... not too hard. And UnO is correct, I was grabbing city after city in peace negotiations.

	29-07-2004 03:46									#4
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Same here, you cannot beat techs out of the AI.

Next time, try getting a tech with a peace treaty. In my game, none of my peace treaties were after a war. I've tried that with no success.

The peace treaties that worked for me were simply trying to renegoiate an expired treaty. So basically, every 20 turns I would negoiate for a treaty and techs. With multiple AIs, you can get multiple techs every 20 turns.

	29-07-2004 21:14									#5
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You can beat tech out of the AI, but only early on, when techs are fairly cheap (ancient era, maybe early medieval). After that, it just won't work.

In my current game (Monarch, standard across the board, me=India), I fought a "war" with England very early on that consisted of me nailing a new size 1 city of theirs with warriors, then hitting a settler team, and then killing 1 or 2 stray English units. For peace, I received 4 ancient techs (IIRC, Bronze Working, Warrior Code, Masonry and the Wheel), a worker, and their treasury. I used precisely 3 units - all warriors - for this. Naturally, England was crippled right then and there, and I got a big 'ole boost.

You gotta get 'em early!

-Arrian

	29-07-2004 22:28									#6
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Well I can't swear to it in Monarch as I only play that for others games, but above it you will play hell getting tech no matter how much you beat them.

The best way then is to toss in gold as well. SO I offer peace + tech + gold to get peace plus tech. This is for tech they would not trade me no matter how many tech and stuff I offer in peace time.

	29-07-2004 23:06									#7
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So you're renegotiating peace and they'll trade?

You need to be stronger?

Almost sounds like a bug.

	29-07-2004 23:24									#8
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It's about the power graph. It's something that goes back a long way - Aeson figured this out a long time ago (in Vanilla CivIII). If you renegotiate peace and are more powerful than the AI, you can get stuff for free or at least at a discount. So if the AI doesn't want to part with, say, mathematics, and you're stronger, you could renegotiate peace and now perhaps you can get math (still paying a lot, but less than it's worth). Or, as vmxa1 says, it's often a tech+money+peace for tech trade.

-Arrian

	29-07-2004 23:26									#9
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Think of it as the human player's version of making a demand. You can't call up the AI and "demand" a tech from them like they do to you. But this is pretty much the same thing: you want that peace treaty to remain? Ok, GIMME!

-Arrian

	29-07-2004 23:29									#10
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Arrian, you mean can't do it or can't do it effectively?

I've made demands in the past, trying to provoke war, and every once in a while had the AI give in, but not often at all. I don't remember if I ever demanded tech, though. I usually demand a WM and all their money, so even if I do wind up at war, well, I've got that, then start demanding cities until they're furious.

	30-07-2004 01:52									#11
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I am not using a renegotiation of peace. I am only talking about the civ comes to me and asks for peace straight up. I counter with one or more techs and maybe other things for peace + techs.

This does not always require me to be stronger. Only that I have done damage and preferably lots of it. The AI may have two or three times my unit count, but I have killed those they sent and taken a city or more.

They often offer peace for me giving peace and tech, even after I have pasted them. So I do nothing until the ask for peace even up. Now if I play at emperor or sometimes even Demi this loosens up. I am guessing it is because they are getting less free support and will not have all that much more than me in troops.

Now all of this is just my perspective and as they say you mileage may vary. I just do not see the AI giving up techs for peace very much, no matter how much you beat on them.