29-07-2004 02:40									#1
	What if: "fixing" Argicultural trait Increase Your PM Length

I know, that this probably won't happen, but I'll ask it regardless.

If Agricultural trait gets nerfed so it doesn't give extra food in despotism at all, will it be balanced?

Such change would prevent balance issues in early game, while leaving some good things for later, like half priced Aqueducts or bonus food on deserts and of course extra food in other governments.

I would still consder it as one of the better traits.

What do you think?

	29-07-2004 04:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

don't nerf my new favourite trait!

Is it really that overpowering? well yes in a way I suppose. It increases growth. And increasing growth consequently increases shields and commerce. but with industrious and commerce they increase they don't increase growth, only a nominal shield/commerce bonus.

it's good for the AI civs though. That's why I say we keep as is. The AI civs do well with this trait. At least initially.

	29-07-2004 04:56									#3
	Put an end to popups!

The real problem with this trait, at least for me, is that I got addicted to it.

It's just to good to have huge bonus at start at the game, then great discount for some buildings in the middile of the game (aquaducts), plus deserts as good as plains.

	29-07-2004 07:41									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think that if they didn't get it under despotism things would balance out. Where its really killing is in the intial expansion phase, give an AI with agricultural decent terrain and it'll expand like crazy. Crazy even by AI standards, assuming it has the room.
I don't think doing this would really weaken the trait either, cities will still grow fast once out of despotism because of the extra food/cheaper buildings. Plus turning deserts into plains is good as lead into gold in my book. :P

	30-07-2004 16:28									#5
	Support Apolyton

Maybe deserts -> plains after engineering is discovered.

	31-07-2004 10:30									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The benefit should disappear under anarchy at least.

	31-07-2004 17:42									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Do the other traits lose their benefits in despotism or anarchy? (This isn't a rhetorical question, I really don't remember.) If they don't lose their benefits, then why should agricultural?

BTW, my favorite traits to play are scientific (I'm a math/physics teacher), agricultural (I love to eat), industrious (I may be lazy, but I don't like my minions to be), and religious (OK, I'm really agnostic, but I'll take a god who commands the masses to follow my will).

	31-07-2004 19:25									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Maybe because +1food early is way too good comapred to +1 food much later in the game?

	17-08-2004 23:54									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Maybe Agr Civs should pay full price for all buildings, including the Aquaduct?

That could actually be done using the editor.

	18-08-2004 02:31									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Nah, the trait is just fine as it. After all, getting the trait onl in despotism is what matters.

	26-08-2004 21:05									#11
	Re: What if: "fixing" Argicultural trait Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by player1 I know, that this probably won't happen, but I'll ask it regardless. If Agricultural trait gets nerfed so it doesn't give extra food in despotism at all, will it be balanced?

How about doing the opposite? How about having agricultural give the food bonus ONLY when you are in despotism?

	27-08-2004 02:38									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I endorse 'patcon' sublime position on the matter!
Er,
What of this is addressable in the editor?