31-07-2004 02:48									#1
	Factional Might Spreadsheet Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've made a spreadsheet that calculates factional might. I think this could be useful in that we could use this to estimate what the other factions posess, especially in the early game when there aren't many variables to work with. We can manipulate things in each faction until we get might readings that roughly match what the powergraph displays. I'll post it and explain how to use it in a little bit. For now, here's my analysis on what I think the other factions posess:

Here are the might readings I compiled for MY 2120. You can see that they closely resemble the powergraph.

Gaians: 36
Data Angels: 47
Morgans: 49.5
Spartans: 48

More in a second...

Attachment: factional might - my 2120.jpg
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	31-07-2004 03:03									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Now, as far as the accuracy goes, I know that our reading is 100% accurate, because I knew exactly what units, techs, etc to enter in. The readings for the others are largely educated guesses, as I had to guess somewhat as to what techs, units, etc they had. Although, I feel that they are rather close, as I used much of Googlie's covert ops info for the entries.

Here are the assumptions I made for the Gaians:

*They only have 3 techs. If they had 4 techs, their powergraph would be waaaaay higher.
*My guess was that those 3 techs were cent ecol, info networks, and biogenetics. What do you guys think?
*They only have 1 scout patrol.
*they have a pop of 4 (as has been confirmed by Googlie's covert ops).
*They only have 1 former (probably the one they started out with
*They don't have any Battle Ogres. All that talk about "Pegasus" in their paper is some crafty propaganda work. If they had a battle ogre, their power would be 2.5 points higher, and that just doesn't match up with the in-game powergraph

As for the Data Angels:

*They have a pop of 5 (right, Googlie?)
*They have 4 techs:
***Info networks
***Planetary networks
***ind base - just a guess, what do you guys think?
***ind econ or cent ecol - one of those, I can't figure out which
*They have 2 scout patrols

Morgans:

*They have 5 techs:
***ind base (duh)
***ind econ
***info networks
***planetary networks
***cent ecol
*My guess is that they are researching IA as we speak
*they have a pop of 4 (as verified by Googlie)
*They have 1 scout patrol

Military power is as follows*:
Gaians: 0.5
Data Angels: 1
Morgans: 0.5
Spartans: 7.5

*I am assuming that the best prototyped weapon is lasers. If that were not the case, our military strength would be even higher!

Technological Might:
Gaians: 19
Data Angels: 26
Morgans: 33
Spartans: 24

Population:
Gaians: 4
Data Angels: 5
Morgans: 4
Spartans: 4

Total Unit Might (military units + non-combat units):
Gaians: 1
Data Angels: 1
Morgans: 0.5
Spartans: 8

These readings may not be 100% accurate, but I feel that they are darn close. I hope this information helps.

Last edited by Zeiter on 31-07-2004 at 03:13

	31-07-2004 03:09									#3
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Here's the spreadsheet. I'll explain how to use it in a minute...

Edit: Updated Spreadsheet yet again. This updated should be the last one.

Attachment: factional might spreadsheet version 3.0.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

Last edited by Zeiter on 31-07-2004 at 04:56

	31-07-2004 03:33									#4
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This spreadsheet is relatively simple to edit. Only 5 sections need input: population, # of transcendent thoughts, # of SP's, what techs each faction has, and what units each faction has. You can see 4 of the 5 sections here. Pretty self explanitory, really.

Attachment: factional might spreadsheet- my 2120.jpg
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	31-07-2004 03:40									#5
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Pops at 2120 are correct.

• Gaians
  
  - hard to say what techs they'd go for, but it's hard to say whether they have 3 or 4, being that low in the graphs. I agree, though, if they have 4 techs plus an Ogre, they'd be far higher than they are, even if they did lose their 3rd Colony Pod
  
  - and surely by now they've captured that first mindworm (maybe even 2 or 3)
  
  
• Angels:
  
  - we know they do have cent ecol ('cos it doesn't appear as a tech trade offer when we "offer all tech"
  
  - and I'd say that, being former Pirates, they're fast tracking for Flex (to get their hands on foil probes), which would mean Doc Mobility
  
  
• Morgan
  
  - there was speculation that they'd gotten an early Biogenetics then rushed recycling tanks, but I don't see their relative population growth as being +1 from tanks in their first 2 bases
  
  - I think, instead, that they rushed synthmetal sentries with their ec's (plus maybe an energy bank - that'd explain their sluggish cp production.
  
  - so maybe you have them too heavy on the tech but light on the armored units?

	31-07-2004 03:47									#6
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The units section is the most complicated, but it isn't to difficult to figure out. Just find the category for the unit, type in the name, min row cost, quantity, and if it is a combat unit, it's weapon strength. All the rest is calculated. Oh, and don't forget to updated the "Best Prototyped Weapon" box up near the main section when it is needed. That value helps determine the "ratio to best weapon" value in the units section.

If anyone is wondering where I got my formulas, the might formulas are in the in-game help section of Alpha centauri under advanced concepts.

This spreadsheet can be used both to keep track of our strength, and to try to figure out what the other factions have by tinkering with their values, then checking the chart with the spreadsheet to see if it coincides with the in-game powergraph. The closer you get the two graphs, the more likely it is that you've figured out what the other factions have. This, taken together with Googlie's covert ops work, should prove a powerful tool in our information gathering efforts.

Attachment: factional might spreadsheet2- my 2120.jpg
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	31-07-2004 03:55									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wow this is great.

One thing; in your last screenie it says an Ogre is worth 5 mineral rows. According to alphax.txt they're 10 mineral rows - which translates into 5 mineral rows (half the cost) when disbanding the unit.
Ogres Mk2 & 3 are respectively worth 15 and 20 mineral rows (and thus half of that when disbanding).

	31-07-2004 03:57									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Perhaps they have more units and less tech. But the thing is that a scout patrol only counts for 0.5 of a might point, and a former the same. So even if the Morgans had 6 scout patrols or something, they would only be 3 might points higher. Whereas the techs are worth much more at this point in the game. If Morgan only had 4 techs, per se, then his Overall might would decrease 5-7 points. If feel fairly confident on the number of techs for each.

Now, it is possible that the Gaians have picked up a few mind worms already, but those psi units would increase their might quite a bit. How many min rows are mind worms? 4 or 5? If we say 4, then each MW they picked up would increase their might by 2 points. So if they had 3 MW already, they'd be 6 points higher. I just don't see that being the case. Although I could be wrong. You do raise some interesting points that need some further testing. I'll try fooling around with the values in each category, and see if I could get similar might readings from less tech and more units. Although I think it would take an absurd amount of scout patrols to make up for 1 tech on the might chart.

	31-07-2004 04:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Wow this is great. One thing; in your last screenie it says an Ogre is worth 5 mineral rows. According to alphax.txt they're 10 mineral rows - which translates into 5 mineral rows (half the cost) when disbanding the unit. Ogres Mk2 & 3 are respectively worth 15 and 20 mineral rows (and thus half of that when disbanding).

Wow, 10 min rows! That means our military might is skyrocketed up to 10! And then that means our total might is up to 50.5. Which means that the other factions need to be stronger. Okay, I think Googlie is right in that the others probably do have more units. the battle Ogre min row cost threw off some of the calculations. Thanks for pointing that out! Now I'll go back, correct the Ogre cost, and then mess around with giving other factions units to even up the powerchart again.

	31-07-2004 04:16									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I didn't see a response, but Ogres fight conventionally.

And remember that the Angels started with a non-combatant probe team as well

And you know that the Uni got sothb, so also got a free tech. If Morgan has 5 techs, then Zak must have 6 (even an AI Uni can't be researching at a lower rate than Morgan)

And Zak has the military lead, having just won it a couple of turns ago from Yang, suggesting laser weapons or oodles of troops (and maybe each faction has popped an ogre, thus devaluing ours as regards the compariosn with the others)

	31-07-2004 04:26									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Okay, I've done some reworking, and I think I've come up with something that is more in line with Googlie's estimations.

Might readings:

Gaians: 37.5
Data Angels: 48.5
Morgans: 51.5
Spartans: 50.5

Populations are same as before
*I entered in nfo nets, plan nets, cent ecol, and doc:mob for the Data Angels.
*I entered in 3 scout patrols and 2 formers for Gaians.
*Morgan has 2 formers and 3 scout patrols
*Data Angels have 2 formers and 5 scout patrols

Updated Technological Might:

G: 19
DA: 25
M: 33
S: 24

Updated military might:

G: 1.5
DA: 2.5
M: 1.5
S: 10

Updated total unit might:

G: 2.5
DA: 3.5
M: 2.5
S: 10.5

You're right Googlie. I also think this is more realistic. That Ogre miscalcualtion was throwing me off.

I'll keep this updated and post the general readings at, maybe...5 or 10 turn intervals, perhaps?

	31-07-2004 04:31									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I didn't see a response, but Ogres fight conventionally. And remember that the Angels started with a non-combatant probe team as well And you know that the Uni got sothb, so also got a free tech. If Morgan has 5 techs, then Zak must have 6 (even an AI Uni can't be researching at a lower rate than Morgan) And Zak has the military lead, having just won it a couple of turns ago from Yang, suggesting laser weapons or oodles of troops (and maybe each faction has popped an ogre, thus devaluing ours as regards the compariosn with the others)

Ah, so you think Ogres are calculated as conventional combat units? Okay, I'll try going back and re-figuring it. Thanks for the info. This is kind of a trial and error thing for me, as I haven't ever done anything like this before, so sorry for all of the revisions.

	31-07-2004 04:53									#13
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Ah, this one's close, I can really feel it! I moved the Ogre to the combat units section and changed the "best weapon prototyped" box to read "6". I also added a lot of units to the other factions.

Overall Might:
G: 40
DA: 49.75
M: 52.67
S: 52.17

Technological Might is same as before

*Gaians now have 4 formers, 3 scout patrols, and 1 mind worm
*Data Angels now have 6 formers, 1 probe team, 1 scout rover, and 4 scout patrols
*Morgans now have 6 formers and 4 scout patrols

It seems like an awful lot of formers, I know, but it is the only way I could get the might values to balance. And, considering many players like to have 2+ formers per base early on, I guess it is concievable.

Populations are same as before

Military Might:
G: 3
DA: 1
M: 0.67
S: 11.67

total unit might:
G: 5
DA: 4.75
M: 3.67
S: 12.17

I think that should be pretty close.