18-08-2004 05:08									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MotownDennis Nope, I still disagree. There is absolutely no guarantee of taking a city from a human opponent with an army. You should see some of these people defend! Of course, it helps. Yes, a Rider, Ansar, or Cav army is scary. I've just seen too many times when that Rider army takes out one or two pikeman in a city, loses some hp, and then is slaughtered by counterattacking medievals/knights/horses.

that's why you don't bring an army up to a city by itself. armies must be protected. And have accompanying attack troops. I only use armies to knock out the toughest defenders. The other guys mop up the regular defenders.

	18-08-2004 05:49									#32
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I imagine the Scandinavians are also incredibly good in elim games.

	18-08-2004 09:22									#33
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Conquests Armies are much better than pre-conquests: 1. Extra movement point. In addition to increasing speed, this gives an Army of Swords retreat ability against 1 MP defenders and also negates attacking Horsemen ability to retreat.

After my army gets down to 1HP and I'm hoping for a retreat I usually have to buy a new mouse because I've just crushed the old one in my grip...

	19-08-2004 08:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 Yes, especially when one is of the 1337 variety

* Theseus shudders. Especially pre-3000 BC.

	19-08-2004 21:21									#36
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Isn't just about every tactic much more effective when used against the AI than other humans?

Actually, no. There are tactics you can use on human opponents that don't work well on the AI.

	19-08-2004 21:25									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I imagine the Scandinavians are also incredibly good in elim games.

It depends. They can be good.

Obviously, they are great if playing a medieval start. If playing an ancient start, though, you have to worry that someone playing an ancient-type civ will clean your clock before you get to the middle ages. No one wants to see Berserks showing up on their doorstep. Human opponents will usually try to wipe you out before you're able to field them. Also, smart players who are near the coast will build lots of curraghs/galleys to try to kill your Berserks while they're still on the boat.

	20-08-2004 04:03									#38
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Kuciwalker, we've had a couple jokers come around here bragging about how insanely good they were... one of'em was one of those 1337 idiots... all were promptly 'dealt' with.

	20-08-2004 05:30									#39
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[fanes7]I have 16 leaders by 3500 BC and YOU CAN TOO! Just follow my step to step guide of greatest strategy ever and you to get 28 leaders in first turn of game. First is to send warrior straight to enemy barbarian to be elite...[/fanes7]

	21-08-2004 18:39									#40
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16 MGLs by 3500BC? I want whatever crack he's on.

	21-08-2004 22:29									#41
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Hum raging barbs on sid, attack with regular warrior. That should be fun, since they often kill sowrdsmen and last night I even lost a knight.

Fane7 will have to stick to vanilla civ for his tactic.

	24-08-2004 17:30									#42
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I remember the 1337 guy! Didn't he get 'pwned' the first time he posted a save to show how great he was? I think even I had some tips I could have given him....

ZOC given by City Walls. The useless things you learn.... I haven't seen this to date either, but I can't imagine it would make much of a difference.

	25-08-2004 07:05									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MotownDennis Nope, I still disagree. There is absolutely no guarantee of taking a city from a human opponent with an army. You should see some of these people defend! Of course, it helps. Yes, a Rider, Ansar, or Cav army is scary. I've just seen too many times when that Rider army takes out one or two pikeman in a city, loses some hp, and then is slaughtered by counterattacking medievals/knights/horses.

well said

indeed it shows the dangers of Cav without support in action

I personally like a strong Cav Army, it is good to be able to reach out and touch the opponent

	05-09-2004 14:43									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Or conversely, does a city automatically get a ZoC since it automatically acquires walls at size 7?

I thought walls automatically *disappear* when reaching size 7. Sure, there is a defense bonus to large cities, but the effect is not the same as city walls. So no ZoC for large cities, I believe... though it would be realistic that due to the size of the city, it would be able to control the surrounding countryside better.

	05-09-2004 22:03									#45
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True the walls disappear in the graphics, but there is still an icon on the city screen that says "city walls" next to it. I have no actual experience one way or the other, but I'd be surprised if the ZoC effect disappeared just because the graphics change...

	06-09-2004 02:30									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D True the walls disappear in the graphics, but there is still an icon on the city screen that says "city walls" next to it. I have no actual experience one way or the other, but I'd be surprised if the ZoC effect disappeared just because the graphics change...

I have understood it is stated in the game rules that walls have no effect on cities above size six.

You are right in that the icon remains... I believe this is so that if the city decreases in size, you won't have to build the walls again, and for the graphical purpose: if you've ever looked at the city view graphics (or whatever it's called), you can see parts of the walls intact in large cities, with the city spreading beyond them. It makes sense the walls have no effect above size 6 because they wanted to model the fact that no large city can be surrounded by defensive walls.

	06-09-2004 03:11									#47
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So if I build walls for a city larger than 6, I'm wasting my time and shields?

	06-09-2004 04:11									#48
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Pre-Conquests, yes. With Conquests, there doesn't seem to be a difinitive answer on the ZoC thing, but that would be the only benefit. (Although, if the city drops back below a 7 population, the walls do take effect again.)

Most of these little tweaks added to Conquests are for gameplay purposes, and ignore any realism considerations, often moving away from it. It seems more likely to me that the ZoC would be linked to the presence of the walls, not to the amount of defensive bonus they offer.

As far as realism is concerned, wasn't Constantinople a rather large city that benefited from defensive walls...?