01-08-2004 20:35									#1
	2122 is here, we get contact with Yang. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Gave into all of his demands, and tried to gift him the rest of our tech, but hes got all of our techs after the two I gave him so he cancelled communications. No treaty. His Veteran Synthmetal Sentinel stands on our side of the land mass on the fungus.

furthermore the former at Morgan Vulcanology survived the fight with just 20% damage.

Yang is informal truce with us, belligerent(after giving two techs to him), and erratic mood. He is running police state-planned for SE choices. He has 17 council votes(we have 4).

No matter how we set the SE it will take 2 turns to get Ind-Auto.

Last edited by Whoha on 01-08-2004 at 20:41

	01-08-2004 21:28									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well with that in mind, I'll crack open the turn and reload till I think I've got diplomacy with Yang cracked. My goals would be a treaty or even better, a pact, withdrawal of his unit (Unlikley I know...) and all his tech. Plus any commlinks he has already.

	01-08-2004 21:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hmm... it seems that the Good Chairman is not feeling very happy today! He has 17(!) pop to our 4, and won't do anything but decalre vendetta unless we give into to his demands for IndEcon and InfNetworks. Since he's in planned, it seems likely someone already gave him planetary networks. Coincidentally, he's also met the Angels.

He declares vendetta on us immediatly if we refuse to talk to him. He declares vendetta if we don't give him 2 techs.

Yang has no contact with any other factions but ourselves and the angels. He won't sell us their commlink for love nor money.

I think at this point that war is completely unavoidable with Yang, but may be postponable for a while. I suggest we give into his demands and don't contact him for a while... avoid him at all costs! Giving into his demands is a lot to give, but OTOH, the other players won't have anything to give him to stop him declaring vendetta.

	01-08-2004 22:09									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I guess we have too, Boy the Mods shure made him MEAN and STRONG. Atleast he will act as a good buffer against other players for a long time. I think we should begin depating the use of a Police State goverment as a means of avoiding war, I prefer Democracy but if its going to get us into a war (practical guarantee with him this nasty already) then PoliceState would alow us to keep in a more build oriented stance untill such point as we are less threatened. For the meantime I think we should continue pushing towards HGP and PTS and do as Chaunk sugjests, keep Yang Happy by avoiding him completly I wouldnt even infiltrate him just yet. We still need to see that we have a base further south we cant let him encroach on us we need space for our City Sprawling.

	01-08-2004 23:14									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What about probing away that synthmetal sentinel, I bet it will do a good job gaurding the choke point. Plus its going to wander through our territory if we don't.

	01-08-2004 23:18									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Also lets go ahead and infiltrate him. Impaler, He will likely demand IA from us, lets not spring board it to the angels, so war will probably be in 2 or 3 turns unless we do want to give Yang(and the angels) IA.

	01-08-2004 23:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What techs would we have to give up?

I'll be out for a while, but available in 8-12 hours.

	01-08-2004 23:37									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The ai generally ignores you for around 15-20 turns after making some serious demands, so I don't think Yang will call up for IndAuto. If he does, then yes, we have a war then, but lets wait till then.

Probing away the synth sentinel means certain war. If we think we should do that, we shouldn't give into any of his demands. Be aware though that the ai is VERY reluctant to give up on a war, especially when it percieves itself to be strong as the Hive will here.

PTS has suddenly jumped up a notch for me in importance stakes, as now the increase in pop gives us a massive increase in reletive strength. That'll make Yang and the other ai more intimidated and less likely to make war if we don't give into their demands.

We'd have to give up IndEcon and InfNet to avoid war.

	02-08-2004 00:16									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

ok then if we can expect to not get a call for IA then lets get the truce.

	02-08-2004 01:00									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

But we still need to prepare for Yang demanding IA next turn...

	02-08-2004 02:54									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I wonder if Yang even has lasers by now.

The garrison unit we've seen is a veteran. Therefore, it is not brand new.

Infonets and lasers are needed to reach the impactor. Until Yang gets impactor, we can defend at the checkpoint, unless many units attack at once. Giving him infonets will get him to impactor faster. THAT worries me.

Once he gets Ind Ec from us, Yang is ONE tech away from IA. Yang might become a big builder of secret projects. In a few games I have seen him use crawlers to rush his projects.

Our technologies will be safe out of human hands for a while, as tech stealing will result in war with Yang.

The Spartans will have doctrine: mobility to give Yang and applied physics (whether they do is another story). Would the gaians also be beeling to IA? If they are not, they will still have techs to give Yang, regardless of our contributions.

Are the Angels really running planned now? Their commlink shows that the are running simple.

As for peacefully getting rid of Yang's unit, we merely leave out scout where it is, and move the def team SW of the base. The only square free of the zone of control will be to the south.

Last edited by arginine on 02-08-2004 at 05:05

	02-08-2004 04:36									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If it was the prototype for SynthMetal, and it stepped onto a monolith, or if it was just a pre placed unit then it may have never seen a fight before.

	02-08-2004 05:55									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I imagine all the other human factions are concentrating on the Plan Nets side of IA first. Here are some things to take into consideration...

If they find out the Hive has Ind Econ, a) they'll be able to trade for it or take it, b) they'll know we gave it to him (his research isn't good enough to outpace them on his own), and c) they'll know we're afraid of Yang.

	02-08-2004 06:02									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We already know that Yang has Planetary Networks but not InfNetworks. He must have been given that by the angels. If they're scared of him, then such is life! Tis no great loss to them, and it doesn't really tell us much, other than that they're not investing greatly in military.

If we don't give Yang the tech, we get into a war. We can't support units for a war yet, and will surely lose. Not an option then in my mind. We have to give him both techs

Edit: I didn't make this clear in this thread before sorry, so I will now... I cannot play the official turn this time anymore. If I did, there'd be perhaps 20 reload warnings

	02-08-2004 06:18									#15
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Chaunk If we don't give Yang the tech, we get into a war. We can't support units for a war yet, and will surely lose. Not an option in my mind. We have to give him both techs

Agreed.



I cannot load the save files right now so I cannot do a turn, nor see everything that is happening.

We need to try to get a few probes through the
Hive to infiltrate it and to infiltrate/meet the other factions.


Mead

	02-08-2004 06:33									#16
	Support Apolyton

After thinking a bunch, I am for giving Yang the techs. This way we're making a big problem bigger, and then giving it to someone else.

He'll probably end up getting info-nets from someone else, and then research the particle impactor, which we won't be able to defend against, unlike now.

We'd be too busy going for the SPs to tech steal anyways.

So far the saved game's been downloaded 11 times. I wonder if anyone here has NOT played it yet.

Last edited by arginine on 02-08-2004 at 06:55

	02-08-2004 09:51									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Eleven times? Thanks for mentioning that. Perhaps we should have a policy that the first person to download it from the turn tracking thread, attaches it to our discussion thread. Then everyone else uses that save, so the other teams don't know "something's up" by the number of downloads.

	02-08-2004 09:56									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Besides Yang talks, what's up this turn? What else needs to be decided? I don't want to open the turn until we've decided what to do with Yang, and everything else.

Does Yang agree to withdraw once we give him techs?

	02-08-2004 10:23									#19
	Tired of ads?

no he doesn't, he agrees not to crush us like bugs though :P.

looks like the game plan is to keep our scout where it is, and move the newly minted defense attorney down to block off any movement into our territory by the synthmetal Sentinel. And you'll probably have to just give up the two techs, Good thing that we don't have IA.

	02-08-2004 13:36									#20
	Got spare money?

Ok, I gave Yang the techs. After opening the turn I wondered, did anyone try just ignoring him?

IA and Wealth in two turns. I tested out the +3/+4 econ thing and you guys were right, we'll gain 2 energy per base. And I call myself a Morgan player.

Mor Met will need a doc next turn. Then it can work two squares the following turn because it will finish the CP before riots are calculated.

I suggest Mor Vul work the 1-2-2 square west of the volcano peak for next turn only. It will still grow in the same number of turns, but we'll gain one ec and one min for rushing the CP.

The Mor Vul former is resting so it's terraforming rate doesn't suffer.

Take a look at the screenshot for what the Mor Vul scout found. It doesn't look like there's much land, so an IOD must have landed that worm.

Attachment: 2122_screenie.jpg
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

	02-08-2004 13:54									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yep, I tried just ignoring him - vendetta was the result

	02-08-2004 16:00									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda The Mor Vul former is resting so it's terraforming rate doesn't suffer.

Sorry could you explain that? Terraforming rate suffers for damaged formers? I've never heard that before...

	02-08-2004 20:25									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Now that we've paid off Yang, are we going to just seal off our border and do no further exploration south to avoid contact with Yang? Or, are we going to explore south down to our border? Will we expand southward only if there is another easily defendable location further south? Will any expansion south use the CPs to come shortly, the next round of CPs, or after that?

Is morgan vulcanology going to still make the CP? Should we slow down our research rate to get more EC for rushing? Will the independent scout explore north, south, or guard after we guide Yang's minion away from our area?

We should stick a forest in the square SW in the southernmost base to get rid of that fungus.

Last edited by arginine on 02-08-2004 at 20:30

	02-08-2004 21:39									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If your former is at 50%, it takes twice as long to do its work. I'm not sure how it does all the fractions, but building a forest might take 5 turns instead of 4 at 80% health. The other advantage to resting is if another mindworm comes along, it'll have a better chance of surviving if it's at full health.

I think we should stick with our current 50/50 energy balance at least until Wealth. After that, we can look at options for increasing our ec income. However, we still need to research Biogen fairly quickly in order to build HGP in a reasonable time.

That reminds me, the Angels have Ind Econ, and have probably started IA. I can't imagine they'd get it in less than 7 years, since the best they can do is +1 energy per square (if they switch to FM soon), and nothing special at the base square. We'll probably have five to ten years of exclusive use (until 2129-2134) before our patent runs out.

There isn't much good land to the south, and Yang will probably hang out there anyway. We'll probably just have to seal it off.

Mor Vul is currently working on a CP. We can still road the volcano peak to save one turn of travel time for putting the CP on the north slope of the volcano.

Faction populations:
Gaians: 5 (and running Planned)
Angels: 5
Morganites: 4
Spartans: 4