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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 05-08-2004 06:22
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WTF???!! I just realized Nathan has refining and rep parts!!

I am well and truly screwed. I guess I hope that Hoplites are as good as Spearmen against Tanks.

Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 05-08-2004 07:18
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Here comes my prejudice or thinking on the matter Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well I think you are right, about the being 'screwed' part! This is more a tech race than a good war game. My analysis of course:

~ To fast through tech tree
~ To many restrictions on interactions with the AI’s
~To few units for early and middle ages (this also is impacted by speed of tech tree)
~No pre-built road network, coupled with not having units sporting an extended moving range.
~Not an ‘undeclared war’ opportunity, via a early plentiful pick of ‘hidden nationality’ and ‘invisible units’. Human against human, you aught to be able to shake each other up along the way, not just specialize on obscure manipulations of trades and what-nots.
~Need more ‘early on’ fiery naval engagement opportunities (relates to points above)
~And all the above with few dozen armies on each side, three or four different kind to boot.

Gosh, my ‘prejudiced’ analysis is beginning to sound suspiciously like a commercial for my mod! Sorry about that part, but seriously, I always hated the quick moving through time and no good campaigns. What is left now is just a tech lead clean up.

END of Analysis

Well, Theseus, is there any dignity in conceding? Why not ‘steal’ some tech there buddy? Bully your way to high ground and ‘attack first’!!

My suggestions are losing their integrity!

Not to be too glum, but if I were on your staff, I’d be ‘hoarding’ some foreign currency for a rainy day exodus!

vulture is offline vulture
King
Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 05-08-2004 18:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
MP question: If I declare war on Rome, can Nathan in ANY WAY see my tech status?


There is some access to information if he has a spy planted. The cost of spying missions depends on the number of techs you have, so it is possible to get some kind of idea of where you are from that. Although I can't remember of the top of my head whether stealing tech is even available as an option vs someone who doesn't have any techs that you need.

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

King
Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 05-08-2004 19:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Bomber


Setting up a full barricade system will take up far too many worker turns, although a few well placed among the mountain chain to the NW might prove beneficial.


Hence my vagueness. I'm not sure if he has the workers to spare or not and an incomplete attempt could well be just wasted effort.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 08-08-2004 08:44
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Got spare money?

OK, sorry for the absence, the last coupla days have been busy.

A few turns ago, I declared war on Carthage to break all of the remaining gpt deals (100+) from the techs I had negotiated in our peace.

My reputation with the AI civs is in TATTERS!!!

I could sense something was up with Nathan, and started turning almost all of my efforts to things military. I had wasted 2 turns on Physics (one at a 50 turn pace, and one at 7), but, hey, c'est la guerre. Started researching Metallurgy a couple turns ago.

I've just played 850 AD, and, get this, negotiated peace with Carthage and got the rest of Metallurgy for 5 gpt!!!

Following are some interesting tidbits as to Nathan's intentions.

Last edited by Theseus on 08-08-2004 at 08:52

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 08-08-2004 08:45
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Put an end to popups!

His power is spiking:

Attachment: au601-840ad power.jpg
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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 08-08-2004 08:48
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Uhhh, interesting ROPs. So he's coming north...

I declared war on Rome, to mask my advance through Metallurgy, and hoping that inviting AI civs to join an MA for a war already in progress might be easier... didn't matter, my rep is in tatters, and I can't generate enough gpt to interest any of Germanic Tribes, Egypt, or the Babs (does anyone know the mechanics of MAs?).

Attachment: au601-840ad rops.jpg
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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 08-08-2004 08:51
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Nathan's economic performance is just stunning. Kudos to him, but again, I fear the worst in what this onslaught is going to look like. Well, not the worst, as I figure he has launched it with Horse/Knight to Cav upgrades... at least it ain't Tanks.

I am prettily solidly #2 in production, gnp, etc., however, and will shortly overtake the Persians in score (assuming I am still around ).

Attachment: au601-840ad score.jpg
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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 08-08-2004 08:57
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BTW, I do not have enough Workers to do a meaningful barricade defense... I'm building them here and there, and will be happy enough to get some fortresses up where needed.

I've got a more than good enough defense in place for AI attacks... but against whatever Nathan is sure to throw at me, it's gonna be ugly.

But hopefully for him too!!

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 09-08-2004 05:11
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Nathan has gotten the Persians into an MA against me... I fended off their first sally of Cavs, albeit barely.

Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 09-08-2004 06:27
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Sounds like your first distraction, have you a fortress to hide some gold in?

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 09-08-2004 08:35
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So far all the Greek players have been trailing. I hope it is ok to wish you luck. I am not taking sides though.

jshelr is offline jshelr
Emperor
pittsburgh
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 13-08-2004 23:18
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You can find out an opponents tech status if you are ahead of him in tech and at war. simply request a peace treaty and the relevant info on tech pops up.

I was always happy to find out Alex didn't have printing press in our game Maybe he had better things to do

jshelr is offline jshelr
Emperor
pittsburgh
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 13-08-2004 23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
So far all the Greek players have been trailing. I hope it is ok to wish you luck. I am not taking sides though.


Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 04:27
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Sorry I've been away...

Nathan is officially kicking my *ss, BADLY.

Many many Cavs... too many. And some RNG luck, the SOB: a healthy vet Cav took out a fortfified 8hp MedInf+Sword+Hoplite Army!! :grr:

I've tried a couple of last-ditch tricks, but the game is surely his. Kudos to him!!

Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 05:11
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Oh, darn Mr. President, would you like to escape with er the rest of your erstwhile faithful (formally faithful) ministers? I have been a hoarding 'foreign cash' for just such an eventuality!

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 22:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
Added Celts, 9 gpt, to the alliance against Carthage... every civ is at war, except Rome. That, and an increase in power, has me worried: Will I be facing a Nathan-special juggernaut SoD soon? We shall see. Given the shaking up I've given to our world, though, I think he must maintain his own defense first.


The catch is, yes, the AIs were building military forces, but they were presumably sending their offensive units to their deaths about as quickly as they could build them. I was a little bit nervous about what might happen if Theseus would start talking AIs into an alliance against me at exactly the wrong time with AI troops in my territory, but if he did, I would be allowed to recapture lost territory and claim AI cities for my trouble. And once AI units were busily fighting and dying against each other, I knew the AI offensive force reserves were not in a position to attack me.

So if the goal was to significantly distract me from building, it didn't produce much effect. Certainly not enough to be worth the gold per turn Theseus was paying - especially since at least most of that gold probably ended up finding its way into my treasury as I sold techs to the AIs.

Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 22:23
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All Hail, the new President has arrived, see we are already using your currency, we must be 'faithful'! Good Job!!

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
WTF???!! I just realized Nathan has refining and rep parts!!

I am well and truly screwed. I guess I hope that Hoplites are as good as Spearmen against Tanks.


I have Replaceable Parts, but not Refining. Actually, I'm still about three or four turns away from Industrialization.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 22:40
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For anyone who hasn't picked up on it in the "Collection of Links and DARs thread," Theseus handed me the password to the Greek side of the game so I can play both sides to the end of the war. I do intend to fight out the Greek side to the best of my ability, including strategic use of rushes, and I'll be posting the Greek side of events in this thread. Here's what the Greek nation looked like when Theseus abdicated, leaving a Roman immigrant to pick up the pieces.

Attachment: ad 890 greece.jpg
This has been downloaded 89 time(s).

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 22:57
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And here's the Greek Military - 34 units, including only six musketmen (two of them regulars I finished with rushes during the construction phase), to defend against 39 cavalry plus whatever reinforcements Rome might send in.

Attachment: ad 890 greek military.jpg
This has been downloaded 88 time(s).

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 17-08-2004 23:46
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Greece did have one glorious offensive victory, albeit a bit more costly than I (in my Greek persona) might have hoped for. With the way cultural borders ran, Sparta was in striking distance of two Medieval Infantry. They had to cross a river, but even so, I felt like their odds would be better attacking than trying to defend. The regular MedInf died, only knocking one hit point off the defending cavalry and promoting it to elite. The veteran also died, but took off two hit points. At first I thought my counterattack had failed, but then I remembered a nearby horseman. He attacked and captured the city.

From that point, I pulled out all the stops. I changed all the Greek cities to build musketmen temporarily and then ordered a hoplite to pillage Greece's remaining saltpeter supply so that any city that couldn't rush a musketman could switch to hoplites. I sold off virtually all the Greek city improvements and was able to finance rushes of the remainder of two musketmen and a few hoplites. Libraries, temples, and such would do no good in defending cities, but the gold from their sale might help the beleaguered Greek military hang on just a little longer. Eretria was abandoned for the Persians co conquer, with forces consolidated in the walled hill city of Herakleia.

By the way, the Roman decision to bypass Nippur had been a disaster for the Greeks. That former Babylonian town was walled on a hill, with six units inlcuding two musketmen defending it. But with the Romans having bypassed it, there was nothing it could really do other than have its units hole up and try to make a stand whenever Rome might get around to attacking there.

Attachment: ad 890 greek victory.jpg
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Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 18-08-2004 01:16
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Oh gosh this is just painful!

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-08-2004 01:43
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Rome retook Sparta and captured six other Greek cities. On the plus side, thanks to the production changes and rush builds, all but two of the surviving Greek cities completed hoplites, and those two completed musketmen. Greece did score another minor military victory, using a horseman to kill a 1/4 Roman cavalry that had captured a Greek worker and recapturing the worker.

Persia still refuses to talk peace. I'd be willing to give the Persians cities for peace if that's what it takes, and to give them anything I own if they would then be willing to ally against Rome. But such is not to be. (For which my Roman persona is profoundly greatful!)

My Greek persona is also giving my Roman persona an ultimatum as a diversionary tactic: any workers in Greek hands in Roman territory will be disbanded. The hope is that if Roman cavalry are busy chasing Greek workers, it will distract them from attacking Greek cities.

Attachment: ad 900 greek territory.jpg
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Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 18-08-2004 04:09
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The few, the bold and the dead, can we not just capitulate completely? As last minister of the now defunct Greeks I hereby 'sell' all remaining holdings, cheap! Just spare women, children and especially my noble family.

Sincerely.
[name withheld on purpose]

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 18-08-2004 04:36
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Rome went on to capture the four southwestern Greek cities the next turn. Persia finally broke through the walls of Troy and razed the city, leaving Greece with only two cities. The Greek leaders tried repeatedly to sue for peace, but no one would listen.

The last turn for Greece was AD 920. Ten Roman cavalry regiments, two of them elite, were sitting on a mountain overlooking Heraklea. As the turn ended, Germanic cavalry hammered Nippur for the second straight turn and Persian forces made a dent in Heraklea's defenders. The cities' surviving forces would heal before Rome's turn came, but there would be fewer of them - and none left armed with muskets. Against the number of cavalry remaining in the Roman strike force, that would not be enough.

Here is the last glimpse of the game from a Greek perspective as the turn rolled over from AD 920 to AD 930:

Attachment: ad 920 greek sunset.jpg
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Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:33
  Old Post 18-08-2004 05:12
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And so ends another... in ignoble defeat! No mercy, nothing...

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 19-08-2004 06:17
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* Theseus bows.

Well played, well done, and WELL DONE!!

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

King
Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 19-08-2004 08:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
* Theseus bows.

Well played, well done, and WELL DONE!!



To both of you. As has been said before, I've been enthralled watching both sides of these games, and both sides deserve kudos for a well-played game and entertaining DAR's. Thanks again.

 
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