04-07-2004 15:57									#1
	Lordship of Progress Full PM-box? Change here!

Last edited by Illuminatus on 04-07-2004 at 20:31

	04-07-2004 22:18									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Tech Cost: Tech cost is re-calculated upon the completion of the current research. However, while researching the 1st tech, tech cost is re-calculated each turn. Therefore, before completing our 1st research, both trading tech and popping pods and getting tech will significantly slow our future research.

Beeline to AI: We’ve started with Centauri Ecology and according to MM’s tech spreadsheet we can beeline to IA non-stop with Information Networks, Planetary Networks, Industrial Base, and Industrial Economics. I’ve never fully understood the mod 3 rule, but I think that some of the other factions will have to deviate from their IA beeline due to the mod 3 rule whereas we do not.

Energy Allocation: Presently, energy allocations are 20% economy & 80% labs. This reduces our turns to complete research from 14 to 7. We are on schedule to complete research on Info. Net. by 2109. The down side is that we went from earning 1 EC per turn to 0 EC’s per turn.

The foreseeable future: Planting of our 2nd base will speed up our research efforts considerably, perhaps by as much as 2 years. A rush built former, if assigned to energy production, should complete our 1st solar collector by 2110

	04-07-2004 22:29									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Note: due to Enigma's famous ability to stay silent, we know that Angels are charging towards IA, in what he called, fastest IA beeline possible.

If someone is interested how did I found out, just come to #ACDG. He hangs out there constantly and occasionally tells minor things about #ACDG. He thinks that such details are not of any significance and he can pass them around. So far we know that Angel turnplayers are Makahluala and Enigma, and that they seem to be alternating in Rock, Paper, Scissors system ( ), that their team is fragmented in three opinions over some issue, that they broke the rule by locating a base in the dark, that they have a centralised structure where Hercules and he decide all, and the fact that he argues with everyone who disagrees with his opinions until they accept it. He also gets mad at various people who do not play PBEM turns three times a day, at moderators because they are slow, at Maki because she was late with playing Angel turn, at ApoltonPlus subscribtion and at his fellow Angels because they do not spam much, so he cannot reply to spam in their private forum.

Last edited by Illuminatus on 04-07-2004 at 22:50

	04-07-2004 22:34									#4
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by obstructor Note: due to Enigma's famous ability to stay silent, we know that Angels are charging towards IA, in what he called, fastest IA beeline possible.

Speaking of rivers. I wish we had one. We should take anything remotely energy like if we can. With our 3rd base after 2109, surely, we won't be improving this target to sooner than 2107 I don't think, unless base-2 has a monolith. That means pod popping, which is nono.

-S

	04-07-2004 22:43									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

There could be rivers west, if we move scout patrol west to search for them. We know that there must be a river nearby, and since we don't see it, it is probably westwards.

	04-07-2004 22:46									#6
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Pod popping is a double edged sword. We need energy ASAP. I guess-timate that popping a pod gives us about, what, a 1 in 6 chance of getting a tech? That would slow us down but by how much, I'm not sure. Besides, maybe the tech would be a good one. If we do pop one, we most certainly must wait till we have something expensive in the build queue.
So, do we gamble or just wait till 2107 or so to pop our 1st pod (post 1st research)?

	04-07-2004 23:03									#7
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Why not keep it? I am sure we will find more pods soon, and we can pop those.

	05-07-2004 00:53									#8
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I'm convinced that it's important to wait until we discover our first tech, because of the 'recompute-cost-if-0-techs-discovered' feature.

-S

	05-07-2004 01:19									#9
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Agreed

	09-07-2004 17:15									#10
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I thought I'd give this thread a bump

By 2107 we will have:
1. Centauri Ecology
2. Information Networks

As we are awaiting 2105, I’ve been looking at another beeline to IA. This is not recommendation, just a possibility:

3. Industrial Base
4. Industrial Economics
5. Planetary Networks
6. Industrial Automation

Either way, we could go for restriction lifting if we chose with:

7. Social Psych
8. Biogenetics
9. Ethical Calculus
10. Gene Splicing
11. Ecological Engineering
12. Environmental Economics

	09-07-2004 23:01									#11
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What are our projections including:

The soon-to-be solar
The somewhat-soon new base (assume no extra energy)
A case of popping a tech like applied physics after 2107?

I don't expect these complex mathematics, but if you feel like it, it would be interesting to see.

	24-07-2004 17:28									#12
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*cough*cough*

	24-07-2004 19:18									#13
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Trends in Research
Actual Tech Cost: Info Net = 14; Plan Net = 33; Ind Base = 49
It cost 19 additional research points to reach our 2nd tech breakthrough but only 16 additional research points to reach our 3rd tech breakthrough. I believe that this “decrease in the rate of increase” means we are falling behind in the tech race.
Projected Tech Cost: Ind Eco = 65; Ind Auto = 81

Presently we are accumulating 6 research points per turn with the slide at 20-80. This gives us 2 EC’s per turn. More CP’s = more research, and in order to reduce our production cost and increase our growth rate we need to make the Planned SE switch. Moving the slider to 50-50 gives us 3 EC’s & 5 research points per turn. Planting base # 4 in 3 turns will increase that to 5 EC’s and 7 research points per turn. Saving all our EC’s will allow for Planned SE in 7 turns.

Projections based on the above: Ind Base by 2125; Ind Eco by 2133; Ind Auto by 2144.

If the worker in Fallow Times had a solar panel, we would gain 1 EC and 1 research point per turn. This would likely shave 1 turn off Ind Eco. More EC’s = more CP rushes = more research. Faster CP’s would likely shave 2 or more years off Ind Auto.

Lord of Progress
M.Y. 2117

	24-07-2004 20:23									#14
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quote: More EC’s = more CP rushes = more research. Faster CP’s would likely shave 2 or more years off Ind Auto.

That's how I like to think about it. Falling behind in tech has several advantages (I sound like a Bush pollster ). We crank out the population now ---> Former Army ---> Research workers ---> laugh at University.

The longer we wait to start a real research program, the cheaper it'll be, the more likely we'll be to trade for a key step, and the sharper our tech blitz will be.

	24-07-2004 21:48									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

However, there are still large benefits to reaching IA early. Everything else can wait.

	24-07-2004 21:59									#16
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Without IA we cannot establish a true economy -while at least two factions will get IA relatively soon. We won't be able to compete with them if reaching IA takes too long.

	24-07-2004 22:03									#17
	Got spare money?

I completely agree with IA as our #1 priority. IMHO, the fastest way to IA is to buy Planned ASAP and give Fallow Times a solar panel ASAP. Does anyone see a quicker way?

	24-07-2004 22:15									#18
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Looks fine to me

	03-08-2004 07:51									#19
	Technology Plan Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Next turn, we get Industrial Base. Ideally, we would go for Industrial Economics to finish the prereqs for the holy grail that is Industrial Automation. However, what if we cannot research Industrial Economics next turn?

I would say go for Biogenetics if that's available instead, and as a third choice go for Social Psych. Both give extremely useful facilities, the only ones I build in some games. Neither is a waste in builder conditions. I favor Biogenetics because rec tanks are always useful, whereas rec commons are only useful if you have drones. Rec tanks are also free to maintain.

Input?

	03-08-2004 12:11									#20
	Put an end to popups!

We could get Biogenetics by probing it from AIs -both Zakharov and Lal have it, and one of them is our eastern neighbour. Rec Tanks are certainly useful, but we should build a probe team soon. Since producing PT and moving it east would take too long, it is probably better to get Biogenetics.

	03-08-2004 17:59									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If we are not going to ICS immediately, which, as you point out, would be silly without some kind of drone control, I say go for rec commons over biogenetics. One or two bases with rec-commons can grow to size 3 and work on SP's while everyone else builds probe teams for disbanding or stealing biogenetics.

Clearly, biogenetics and social psych can be stolen from the AI, but it's going to take us at least a tech-cycle to get a probe team or two in position. Yang will not have either, most likely (unless popped a pod with it, he'll be researching nonlinear now)

All hopes on getting IndEco to research.

Agree that biogenetics is much more useful in general, but, factoring in SProjects, Social Psych can be quite useful in a specific case or two.

	04-08-2004 08:26									#22
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Some off the cuff calculations: If we move the slider to 30 Econ and 70 Labs, we complete our research in 8 yrs instead of 10. Howerer, when the new base comes on line and the solar panel is completed I believe we'd complete the rearch in 6 years. This would cost 2 EC's per turn initially and possibly 3 to 4 EC's per turn with the solar panel in place.
Please note that these are rough estimates but I think they'll hold up.

	04-08-2004 12:36									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

We could cut four years from research? That certainly sounds interesting.

	04-08-2004 21:52									#24
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Energy allocation update:

2125: new base comes on line and adds 3 energy to the grid.
2126: solar panel comes on line and adds 2 energy to the grid.
2129: assuming formers moves N 2127 and complete a forest, forest comes on line and adds 1 energy to the grid.
2130: DoG gets to size 2 and monolith adds 2 energy to the grid.

With sliders at 50-50, we complete research with exactly 70 points on 2131.

With the sliders at 30-70, we need 1 point to complete research on 2130. So, we would either have to get the next CP on line by 2129 or gain a research point by popping a pod ( I believe I’ve noticed this phenomenon of having a point of research added to the total accumulated when a pod is popped). Additionally, moving the slider would cost a total of 15 EC’s during this period.

Lord of Progress
M.Y. 2124

	20-08-2004 13:28									#25
	Put an end to popups!

I think, we should continue the discussion about tech as we are expecting some in the close future from probing Yang and we are going to build an SP..

	27-08-2004 13:37									#26
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I post a question which has appeared since we're researching IA and approach of contact with other factions:

Situation:
We have these B-lines defined:
1.GeneSplicing(3+ nuts)
2.Ecological Engineering(3+ mins)
3.Environmental Economics(3+ energy)
4.Bio-Engineering(clean reactor ability)

All of them fit together as 1 large b-line, because the 1st ones are prereqs for the latest!

Dilemma:
Are we going to research any off-beeline tech?

Pros:
1.If we research strict b-lines there's a risk that no human faction will have anything to trade with us, an so wont we, because we all will have the same tech!

2.We'll be faster to other crucial techs in late game as NG/D:AP/MMI/OSF/FP, therefore at least militarily stronger!

Cons:
1.If noone wants to trade and the possibility to probe efficently is low, then we'll be disadvantaged after they research those techs

Please post your opinion!

	27-08-2004 18:31									#27
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Been thinking about this a bit. Because we are a little on the slow side, I think it best if we just take what we can get after IA. Perhaps consider taking over Zak or Yang, but certainly probing them for all they are worth. The extra techs have their uses, and we will be free to trade. Obviously we do want to achieve the b-line techs as fast as possible, but a strict diet of research and no probe/trading might be too costly in the mid-game when we might want a few weapons or cannon-fodder techs.

	27-08-2004 20:05									#28
	Got spare money?

I say we accept reasonable trades for any useful techs, regardless of beelines.

	14-09-2004 13:34									#29
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To anyone who does not know what we're b-lining for:

READ THIS THREAD THOROUGHLY!

	14-09-2004 14:44									#30
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Hmm Net Warrior is not around, perhaps a replacement?