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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:33
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 Funny, as I didn't form an alliance with anyone.
Sharpe confronted me about having an alliance with you, Rhoth. Once he did that, I figured you weren't allied with anyone. (I didn't deny it to Sharpe, as I figured I might cut Rhoth off from some alliance possibilities, and leave me one of the remaining candidates for Rhoth.)
Zargon, I was sure didn't have an alliance. Not a military one anyway. Frankly, no one would want to be tied to you that way, Zargon. 
Sharpe and UnO were the only ones I figured there might be an alliance between. Though assuming there was, I wouldn't have bet UnO would have let that keep him from attacking Sharpe if he wanted to.
I wasn't really sure where I was headed. I knew I wanted to finish out REX and build up a little bit. After that, I probably would have attacked either Sharpe or Zargon with MW hordes. (No Impis or Mercenaries for me, thanks.) I knew I wanted to attack Zargon eventually, but I also wanted to give him time to clear some of the wetlands down there for me.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:33
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By the way, I want everyone to know what a trespassing bastard Rhoth actually is and what a nice guy I am. 
Here I am, REXing happily away with the +5 fpt pump I laboriously set up, and this impertinent guy, who has a Colossus build going, lands next to one of the only two sources of ivory in the game. I have very little in the area.
Gambling he is stretched thin and hasn't committed much to his landing, I move a warrior on to the ivory to keep him from stealing Zeus out from under me. (I start to send a spearman during the confrontation, but it'll take some time to get there and it's all the rest I can spare at the moment.) Once I have his word he won't try for Zeus, I back out, leaving him the resources he came in and grabbed off my continent for himself.
Now, ruthless would have been building some archers and driving you off the continent.  But that would have hurt my early expansion and I really didn't want to bother with a war either.
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Sharpe
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Ontario
May 1999
time: 00:33
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Well, Uno and I did agree to an alliance when he approached me about it (I guess after he couldn't rush anyone - particularly me). But to be honest I was wary of him since most of the techs that I was researching first seemed to be ending up in both Rhoth and Kloreep's hands. I suspected that UnO was gathering himself for an eventual attack on me - but I was going to attempt to get some sort of agreement with Rhoth to help out against that (or an attack from Klo).
Kloreep's constant refusal to trade with me very much and his refusal to sign any NAP with me made me very suspicious that Klo was allied with at least 1 or 2 of you  I guess I was wrong there ...
I was particularly frustrated by the latest tech - Feudalism - ending up in Klo's hands especially after that trade UnO made with Rhoth.
I was also working with Zargon - him researching the northern tech line while I handled the southern one.
A game-breaking situation for me was my lack of iron - so I was working with UnO to rush techs as quickly as possible trying to get muskets and eventually cavalry asap - I had just gotten invention and was about to get gunpowder in 7 turns. I was on target to get Mil Tradition done in about 30 turns (which probably would have been too late). I would have been more militarily aggressive if I had iron  grrr.... I was planning on attacking Klo around the time of Mil Tradition in order to try to get his 2nd iron at least...
I saw this turn that I still had a small lead (15% productivity and Mfg goods) on Kloreep (which wasn't that great since I was 30% larger than Klo , so as I had predicted it was only a matter of time before he passed me ) The downside for me was that with 16 cities, I only had 2 extra city sites plus the tundra left on my landmass - and with no iron, no easy way to forcefully expand off of it
In case you were wondering, at the end I had a GNP of 189, Mfg Goods of 63, Productivity of 237 and 134 beakers per turn (and thanks to UnO's 20 gpt - I was always around 0 gpt, except when I slowed down my Feud research to 30% to build up money for upgrades), a population of 2315000 and around 250 gold.
It was a nice game - but my abdominal problem has been getting steadily worse over the past couple of weeks, so I felt I couldn't participate in the manner that I would have liked
Last edited by Sharpe on 04-08-2004 at 10:15
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:33
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Well, let's see.
I can tell right away I was the dirtiest player. As if anyone is surprised.
I actually had an alliance with Zargon. Aproached long before I even had in game contact, I knew at the time it was the one most people would least expect. In fact, we took some measures to keep it such. Not wanting to gift too many tech between us...And, it was the one that I would have honored to a fault as it was the first I made. Even though I suspected ZX and Kloreep might be working together. I also was suspicious of Kloreep and Rhoth due to that city.
Sharpe was my neighbor, though, and he always seemed to be on AIM at the same times I was. As such, a second alliance with him served many reasons.
First, I fully intended to rape his lands and give them to ZX at some point. An 'alliance' would keep him from suspecting it.
Second, since I was going Feudalism, and now seeing ZX's position, I needed a research ally. Sharpe provided that.
The Feudalism trade...Yeah, I traded Feudalism to Kloreep for gold (can't remember number) and then used that gold to invesitgate all his cities, thus providing me with a complete and updated map. I have a differing philosphy than most reguarding trade. The Feudalism in Kloreep's hands upset Sharpe, but we were talking of attacking with longbows and cavalry at this point. Pikes and med inf didn't seem like a big deal to me while a map and less suspicion were more valuable. Same reasons I wanted GoW to give RP Chivalry immediately in the PTWDG. We didn't, they started building up.
At this point, I DAMN NEAR landed on Kloreep's little island there. I had a decent chance of taking 2 undefended cities, possibly keeping 1 that was size 2, near iron. Kloreep having enterred anarchy, I also considered landing impi on the mainland and pillaging whatever I could. I decided I would be unable to inflict enough damage to make it worthwhile.
With this map in hand, I approached Rhoth with a very favorable trade to him: Feud and Mono for Chiv and price to be named later.
I had two reasons for doing this: 1 I was going to attempt to grab Knights Templar
2 I was goign to start working on getting Rhoth to ally with Sharpe and myself as the primary militants to attack Kloreep.
This would have given Iron to Sharpe, Land to ZX, horses to me, and hopefully some peace of mind to Rhoth.
If all went to plan, my next target would have been sharpe, with Rhoth, further strengthening his trust in me hopefully, and leaving ZX build up for the final attack on Rhoth.
I was counting on having a larger military force than anyone via feudalism and eventually maybe even fascism while maintaining tech through alliances.
Coincidentally, had sharpe acted differently in response to the alliances, I had 6 galleys, 4 impi, and 8 archers that could have landed undetected 2 turns from his pyramids quite early. I had no intention of capturing them either.
Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 04-08-2004 at 18:43
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:33
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quote:
Zargon's and your economy COMBINED was still quite a bit less than mine |
Well, no kidding.
I made that alliance before meeting anyone, and if that's what eventually caused me to lose, so be it, but I wouldn't have gone back on it. I'm generally that way, despite me reputation, with the first alliance in a game. Even if it kills me, I won't be the one breaking it.
In a Rise of Rome game, as the Persians, I had allied with Rome at the beginning. He ended up getting his ass kicked, and I gifted a good chunk of my empire, gpt, and protected him best I could so he could get some of those super legions in. The game fell apart much as this one, but there were other avenues that would have placed me personally in a better situation.
You WERE the only one to ever initiate any talks with me. All trades were just that, trades. Half the time they happened via the diplomacy screen. If you didn't give me invention and gunpowder when the time came, I would have accepted it. I don't have problems losing to a backstab. I figured you needed my help to tackle kloreep, though, and I would get them before that. Even though your obsession with him I never fully understood.
Not having them allowed me to build lesser shield cost units and bank gold, which I wasn't giving you all my gpt either, and banking enough for my own upgrades.
Other than considering taking the pyramids roughly 4 turns after you BUILT them, I wasn't ever going to attack you until after Kloreep.
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04-08-2004 00:42
I had a Colossus prebuild going but I couldn't get iron or ivory over to my main area without the Great Lighthouse. That was what the prebuild was for, but Klo thought it was for Zeus so he sent a warrior over to hunker down on the ivory in my new city radius.
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