20-05-1999 14:18									#1
	Do you want FIRAXIS to hear your ideas for Civ3? Here is the best way... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

First, please visit "The List of Ideas for Firaxis" forum on the Civ3 area at Apolyton. You'll see the work already in progress.

WHAT IS THE LIST?

**The List of Ideas for Firaxis is just that: A list of Civ3 development ideas for Firaxis (especially Brian Reynolds) to consider as the design of Civ3 begins and evolves.

WHAT IS A 'THREAD MASTER'?

**I, Yin, am the COORDINATOR of the MAIN LIST, which will be sent at the end of June and then every month after that. But before I can put all that together, the hard work belongs to the THREAD MASTERS, who are taking a great deal of their own time to host topics on given sections of development (please see The List of Thread Masters for more information). The Thread Masters in turn have nothing to organize without feedback from the gamer. So, as we already know, the gamers (YOU) are the key to this list and to making Civ3 an awesome game.

HOW DO I HELP?

**I'm glad you asked! You can help in three major ways: 1) If you have that great topic you always wanted the makers of Civ3 to consider while making the game, here is your chance. E-mail me with your topic and become a Thread Master (I'll explain your duties in an e-mail before you accept because you might think twice after seeing all the work it will take!). 2) Just simply participate in the existing threads. The Thread Masters really need great ideas in order for all of us to combine this into a great list for Firaxis. 3) E-mail me anytime with comments or suggestions: namk26@hotmail.com

WILL FIRAXIS REALLY READ THIS STUFF?

I refer you to the following post from Brian Reynolds:

"I know from experience that the best way to receive suggestion lists is to get one big huge long one every now and then--small piecemeal ones are a lot easier to lose, which is unfortunate because they often have great ideas.

One thing to consider, as you guys discuss Civ3 suggestions in the coming months, is to appoint a volunteer or two to collect the good suggestions into a list--Yin? Where are you Yin?

In the years following Civ1, some guys on the Internet put together a "Civ2 suggestions FAQ" which proved immeasurably helpful in our development of that game.

If you send me a big "core dump" from time to time at breynolds@firaxis.com you can rest assured it will be printed out and sitting on my desk while I'm designing and coding!

BR"

Finally, a question I am often asked goes like this: How much of this list will Firaxis use, and will this just be a waste of time?

I can't promise anything. Not even Brian Reynolds can promise anything--except, of course, that he will read the ideas on this list and keep the list by his computer while he's programming the game.

What more could you want?

	20-05-1999 14:41									#2
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My very personal opinion on this is that we dont really want Firaxis to read what we do. I mean, we are planning to create a game by ourselves, not to put our whishes and hope Firaxis will build that game.
Moreover, I dont really think the goal of Firaxis is to build a whole new game, but rather to capitalize on what Sid Meier has done before. (and the fact that they forecast to link Civ3 with SMAC and, as they say, a whole new game, enforces me in my opinion that they CANNOT rebuild everything for the ground. I mlust say that this is quite disappointing for, as when I read the first time of CivIII I hoped it could have been something very new. This IMO wont be the case, and this reinforces my position that Clash HAS TO BE DONE!!)
For what I know, our concept is really different from what has existed until now in the civ-like genre, and I'm afraid it would be too much risky for Firaxis to adventure in such unexplored areas.
This said, I frequenltly wander on the Civ3 suggestions forum, and here and there I can find intersting ideas. Mark has already built a thread on the suject, and I encourage every one here to follow his advices.

	20-05-1999 15:59									#3
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Well said, Manurein!

As a matter of fact, I was quite fascinated when I read about CIV3 being planned and there being a forum here where we could input our ideas...

Alas, this was nearly at the same time when I discovered the Clash project, and being given the choice of arguing with hundreds of people about ideas which may or may not be included in that (far in the future) upcoming sequel and being able to actively support a project DIRECTLY, I prefer to commit my "brainpower" and creativity to Clash.

As for these threads being open to all, I propose to set up an additional private forum, too, so only people directly involved in the project can read (maybe as a part of the revamped Clash site?).


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If somebody asks you "Art thou a god?", you tell him "YES!"

	20-05-1999 16:25									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I certainly respect your views. And I will certainly steal your ideas.

Listen, I don't care who makes the game. It works both ways, then. Why don't you guys use the List to Firaxis to get ideas for YOUR plans? At any rate, I would just really love to see the entire Civ community give this list their best go. I mean we REALLY have a jump on things here. The ink on the paper for the Civ3 agreement is barely dry. In other words, we can get to Brian before too much is decided.

Well, I tried. Did it work?

	20-05-1999 16:43									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yin:

No, it didn't

Seriously now: I read MANY of those CtP threads (and some of your more destructive ones, too ) ...

I'm glad that you (and many others) are so dedicated to this new project, but personally, I simply have the feeling I can influence much more HERE. And I thinks it's better to have own ideas and try to make them come true than to battle with other who may boast giving the best ideas to a company which will (undoubtedly) make millions with them...

Don't get me wrong: I love CIV and I really, really hope CIV3 will become great, but with so many excellent civers out there caring for the development, there really ain't no need for us "do-it-yourself-freaks", hm?



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If somebody asks you "Art thou a god?", you tell him "YES!"

	20-05-1999 16:52									#6
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yin26:

I support your project and have already posted to several of your threads, Good Luck.

Manu & Dominique:

(I had a long, semi-reasoned discussion but accidentally hit the "clear fields" button instead of "submit reply" and lost it all )

I just think we gain a lot more from our openness at this point than we might potentially lose. But if you'd like to start a thread to discuss it, go for it.

-Mark

	20-05-1999 17:08									#7
	Tired of ads?

I totally agree for openess, that's why I suggested to take into account the civ3 whish list. All I said is I dont see no use to send Firaxis our ideas. Or maybe just for vanity? ;-)

	20-05-1999 17:11									#8
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Well, thanks for the polite responses. I'll leave you to your project, which, if completed, will get my hard-earned money (as soon as I have proof there are no bugs and the game isn't released as a beta! ).

If you ever have a few extra ideas to throw away, can you at least throw then away on the List to Firaxis Forum? Maybe even really bad ideas that would sabotage the game?

	20-05-1999 17:30									#9
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Mark,

I certainly did not mean to hide away - every input should be welcome, indeed. I just thought as the project will develop there will be the need of having some means of communications which is readable by all involved but not prune to get cluttered up by "guest comments". Just a matter of readability, in fact, thus the proposal of having an additional "private forum".

Right now, I get the feeling we need to have a guide to what Clash is to be, what decisions have been made and what is still open to discussion. Also, there comes a point where defined teams must be built and within a team everyone knows who's doing what.

Again I propose to do that in your site. Believe me, structuring that will enhance our wide-spread communication much!

	20-05-1999 18:22									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Dominique:

Ah, you did say additional, didn't you. Well, you know English is only my first language, so I can have trouble with it sometimes . We have several things coming to the stage where a serious proposal can be made. And yes the web site will be the avenue to put up concrete proposals. We can get a private forum at any time we feel the need for it. Personally, I don't feel the need yet.

BTW anyone who wants to synthesize the discussion in any area and make a more firm proposal out of the discussion is Very welcome to do so. I feel the need for this, but I don't have the time to 'bring together' every topic.