05-08-2004 14:37									#1
	Giving the free super former ability in the faction files Increase Your PM Length

By giving the free super former ability in the faction files, do normal units get to terraform, or will this only apply to formers?

	05-08-2004 16:37									#2
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I think it will only be the Formers. Smacksim would be the one to ask, since he put superformer graphics on some units. Also, might I point out that there is a forum for Modding SMAC?

	05-08-2004 17:24									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

There is? Is it the "Creations" forum?

Gah, its bloody vague, with no description.

	05-08-2004 18:58									#4
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You're right. The Creation Forums sounds like it's purely for original stuff. It tends to be where mods, scenarios, graphics, and text-editing are discusses. I always encourage people to post there because there are some real long-time modders that will quickly respond, and b/c it keeps that forum alive and noticed, freeing up this forum for gen/help/strategy.

Anyways, the superformer ability can be given to any unit if you allow it (must change which type of units it's permissible to use with). See this part to learn the flags:

; Flags =
; 000000000001 = Allowed for Land units
; 000000000010 = Allowed for Sea units
; 000000000100 = Allowed for Air units
; 000000001000 = Allowed for Combat units
; 000000010000 = Allowed for Terraformer units
; 000000100000 = Allowed for Noncombat units (non-terraformer)
; 000001000000 = Not allowed for probe teams
; 000010000000 = Not allowed for psi units
; 000100000000 = Transport units only
; 001000000000 = Not allowed for fast-moving units
; 010000000000 = Cost increased for land units
; 100000000000 = Only allowed on probe teams
;
#ABILITIES
Super Former, 1, EcoEng2, Super, 000000010111, Terraform rate doubled

However, the ability does nothing for non-terraformer units, besides make them look rather silly

	05-08-2004 19:25									#5
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In essence you can 'create' a different looking unit then otherwise with a non-usable ability attached to it. Well, might be interesting for the progenitor former ability...

	05-08-2004 19:56									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

So if the say my new ingenous "farmer faction" has the FREEABIL "Super Forming" ability, and say, military units get it, it won't work?

However, if I edit alpha(x).txt and allow this ability on units, military units can terraform?

	05-08-2004 20:08									#7
	Put an end to popups!

In no case can military units terraform. Think about the weapons packages. The terraforming 'weapon' exists in the slot that any other weapon would be in.

If you only add the freeability, only formers will get it. If you do that and allow super-former on all units, the military will get it as well, but it'll do nothing but look silly.

Still, it would be a nice way to distinguish the graphics for your Farmer faction.

	08-08-2004 05:06									#8
	Put an end to popups!

You can give pre designed units different plans to change how they behave and how AI uses them, if you change a military unit to have the terraforming plan it will terraform as well as attack, but AI will use it as a terraforming unit, for example as the Unity Mining Laser was ment for minning but can be used a a weapon I changed its plan and it is know used as a terraformer.

	08-08-2004 07:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by smacksim In no case can military units terraform. Think about the weapons packages. The terraforming 'weapon' exists in the slot that any other weapon would be in.

This is actually one of the things I have lobbied for in the past if SMAC(X)2 ever happens. In the past Roman Legionaires built the Appian Way, and a lot of the roads and aquaducts that serviced Rome (that is when they weren't slaughtering the locals...). Current soldiers "dig in" to defensive positions creating what amounts to bunkers, and also create intersecting lines of fire as well as manning high points for observation posts, which amount to sensor arrays.
I'm also really curious why minefields were never addressed in the SMAC(X)/ Civ series. They are a staple of every military power, and have been used both offensively and defensively to great effect! Anyone have a good answer why this is so?


D

	08-08-2004 07:47									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah, minefields would lead to some really interesting stalemate situations. They could make it where any unit that travels on a mined tile received 50% damage, until the minefield enhancement was destroyed.

And it wouldn't be too hard for the AI to figure out how to use them. Although they might have the problem of walking into their own minefields.

	08-08-2004 08:02									#11
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Yeah, minefields would lead to some really interesting stalemate situations. They could make it where any unit that travels on a mined tile received 50% damage, until the minefield enhancement was destroyed.

This is absolutely true, no where more obviously than the trench warfare that dominated the Western Front during WW1. Minefields were also used to great effect for the defensive in WW2 as well, especially in the defense of Leningrad, in the Kursk salient, and along the Atlantic Wall. Also the Nazi General Rommel once used a British minefield to secure his flank during one of his offensives in North Africa.
Today air transports can scatter massive amounts of mines over a sector in order to secure a flank against an enemy during an offensive operation, thus demonstrating a minefield's "offensive" capabilities.
The lessons that Humanity has learned in the Art of Warfare regarding minefields, just like helicopters and chemical attacks, probably won't be forgotten by the collective consciousness of those that survive PlanetFall, so why aren't minefields represented accordingly?


D

	10-08-2004 07:18									#12
	Tired of ads?

What about air units bombing minefields? Or what if a helicopter lands on it for refuelling?

Should minefields be included as an atrocity thing, due to several treaties signed in recognition of the horror of it?

	10-08-2004 09:39									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The thing about minefields is that they come in two types. Antipersonell mines don't do any good against tanks and antitank mines aren't sensative enough to do any good against infantry. Only antipersonell mines are regulated by international treaties AFAIK. Magnetically triggered antitank mines could work against hovertanks.

	10-08-2004 13:48									#14
	Got spare money?

Or rovers....

Hovertanks generally are light enough not to trigger off any weight-based mine, actually. Magnetic minefields would take much more to build?

	10-08-2004 16:43									#15
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Magnetically triggered mines shouldn't be any harder than pressure triggered mines. In fact, they could be easier since they might not need any particular orientation.

	10-08-2004 20:42									#16
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Anyway, my original point I was worried, since the Pirates, even with land and air units got the Marine ability when they got Adaptive Doctrine, even if it was not used...

	10-08-2004 21:15									#17
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However, AFAIK, those units with the Marine ability can't use it; they can't capture ships.

	11-08-2004 13:23									#18
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The scale of the game argues against minefields as a seperate entity. Assume that they are in play on the tactical level for your dug in units. Mine fields without backing by troops are pretty easy to defeat anyway. You don't have to clear the whole area (usually), just a few paths through it, and this can be done without too much trouble by engineers who aren't simultaneously getting shot at.

Modern mines come in a lot of flavors. Some are acoustically triggered, programmed to fire themselves at the sound of a particular sort of vehicle for instance. But by far the most common are simple, hard to detect anti-personnel mines which have been planted by the millions for often temporary tactical benefit and then forgotten until someone trips it 10 years later. Too bad the anti-mine convention was so narrowly drawn that the U.S., Russia, China etc. couldn't sign it.

	17-08-2004 00:14									#19
	Tired of ads?

Consider mines as part of a perimeter defense. It's not just a fortified wall, it's the totality of the interlocking defense system that makes it so tough. Mines are almost certainly part of that system, which explains part of the expense.