07-08-2004 19:17									#1
	Just how effective is air superiority? Tired of ads?

I was in a recent struggle across a channel with the Germans. I had a slight tech lead, but when the proverbial poop hit the proverbial fan, the Hun sent bomber after bomber at me. Luckily, I had already built a number of fighters (around seven or so) as well as a couple of flak units.

After his first bombing run, I rebased the fighters to the city under attack and put them on Air Superiority the next turn. I also moved all of my flak units to that city and fortified them.

In four or five turns of heavy bombing, I maybe shot down two of his bombers. And this was accompanied with an animation depicting a missile coming up from the city, so I assumed it was the flak knocking them down.

Thinking maybe Air Superiority didn't work if the fighters were actually based in the tile under attack (a reasonable assuption if you stop and think about it), I created an airbase and rebased them there, setting Air Sup the next turn...still...no bombers falling to fights.


The Civilopedia states that fighters on Air Sup will attack any aircraft attacking anything within the Air Sup unit's range...I'm assuming this means they protect not only friendly units but also tile improvements, etc.

Am I missing something?

	08-08-2004 09:47									#2
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Each Fighter has an x% chance of engaging and damaging / shooting down Bombers (I forget the actual %). Multiple Fighters on AS in a given city or airbase does not change the % for each invidual one.

Bad RNG, sounds like.

	08-08-2004 12:16									#3
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The fighters will sometimes be damaged by a early raid by the bombers and abandon their air superiority mission I think, so a move to an external airbase may be a good idea to minimise that problem

	09-08-2004 04:16									#4
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trev is right. The turn that you rebase your fighters to a city under aerial bombardment is very dangerous. The ai seems to be quite good at killing the fighters that have rebased before you have a chance to put them on air superiority.

Try moving in 3-4 flak into the city first. then a turn or two later move in a couple of fighter planes in.

good luck.

	09-08-2004 07:12									#5
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The default "chance to intercept" is 50%.

	09-08-2004 09:48									#6
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Tile improvements don't make any difference.
Try not moving the fighters. Turn off air superiority if damaged and let them sit. It sounds like you moved them around too much and didn't wait a full turn to reagain thir use.

	14-08-2004 21:38									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Cookie Monster trev is right. The turn that you rebase your fighters to a city under aerial bombardment is very dangerous. The ai seems to be quite good at killing the fighters that have rebased before you have a chance to put them on air superiority. Try moving in 3-4 flak into the city first. then a turn or two later move in a couple of fighter planes in.

No single bombing run can kill a healthy veteran or elite unit. So the key to having fighters/interceptors survive and to having some remain healthy for air superiority duty would be to move enough veteran/elite ones to the same location that the enemy bombers won't be able to hit the same one multiple times. (Note that that's complicated a bit by the fact that injured units have to survive the turn after they're injured in order to heal, so numbers would have to be high enough to survive ongoing attacks.)

	15-08-2004 18:44									#8
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I've given my jet-era airplanes 2 movement points, thus an interceptor can re-base and set for intercept in one turn.

	15-08-2004 19:14									#9
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay No single bombing run can kill a healthy veteran or elite unit. So the key to having fighters/interceptors survive and to having some remain healthy for air superiority duty would be to move enough veteran/elite ones to the same location that the enemy bombers won't be able to hit the same one multiple times. (Note that that's complicated a bit by the fact that injured units have to survive the turn after they're injured in order to heal, so numbers would have to be high enough to survive ongoing attacks.)

HP doesn't play a factor in interception AFAICT.

	16-08-2004 15:29									#10
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But I should think it plays into the fighters chances of survival. Bombers occasionally shoot them down while on mission. If interception is triggered, I'm quessing it matters.

	16-08-2004 18:22									#11
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Nathan's not talking about interception, Kucinich. What he's talking about is bombing runs on your city while the fighters are helpless (i.e. not set to intercept), or any other time that the bombers catch them on the ground, so to speak.

	17-08-2004 20:54									#12
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Ah.

	17-08-2004 21:02									#13
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But you and Tattila are right. HP don't matter in triggering intercept, but matter as much as they do in a land attack once it's triggered.

	20-08-2004 11:22									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi But you and Tattila are right. HP don't matter in triggering intercept, but matter as much as they do in a land attack once it's triggered.

I can attest to this also. If you mod the fighters to give them additional HP, they will improve in shooting down enemy aircraft.

Tattila:

I give all of my aircraft 2 MP, it helps when you need a fighter or a bomber in a hurry and makes the air war more strategic in nature.

	20-08-2004 17:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber I give all of my aircraft 2 MP, it helps when you need a fighter or a bomber in a hurry and makes the air war more strategic in nature.

How does that work? Can they move on land and sea?

	21-08-2004 19:19									#16
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No. But they can carry out multiple missions in a turn.

	24-08-2004 01:32									#17
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Ah, so you can rebase and do air superiority all in one turn.

	24-08-2004 08:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Ah, so you can rebase and do air superiority all in one turn.

Correct. It should be noted though that Recon missions and rebasing to a ship will end the turn of the aircraft regardless of MP's remaining. Also, an aircraft can only perform one bombing mission per turn.

	24-08-2004 16:06									#19
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I've gotta say that I haven't used aircraft much since the latest expansion, I found them hopelessly useless when the original game first came out. BUT, that does not mean aircraft aren't any good. I just prefer creating nothing but tanks and mech infantry to squash my foes I imagine that some improvements have been made but I haven't followed up on it too greatly. My strategy in the game is to try to get the Military Academy, Pentagon, army related wonders and manufacture armies in one city until Mobilized Transportation is ready, then I have armies and armies of tanks lol

	24-08-2004 16:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mike4879 I've gotta say that I haven't used aircraft much since the latest expansion, I found them hopelessly useless when the original game first came out. BUT, that does not mean aircraft aren't any good. I just prefer creating nothing but tanks and mech infantry to squash my foes I imagine that some improvements have been made but I haven't followed up on it too greatly. My strategy in the game is to try to get the Military Academy, Pentagon, army related wonders and manufacture armies in one city until Mobilized Transportation is ready, then I have armies and armies of tanks lol

Its one way to do it, but a little bull headed for my tastes. I prefer a more 'combined arms' approach to warfare. Not to mention that I have a reputation to uphold

-Mad Bomber

	24-08-2004 17:35									#21
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I wonder, if Elite-status has any bearing on intercept%... Do Elite ground combat units get any +% on their attack/defence?

Also, artillery units seem to have regular-veteran rankings, without the hp, of course. The green dot on top of a combat units hp bar, telling about the movement the unit has, seems to be at different heights in some arty units, and captured ones in C3C. I wonder if they have any effect on effectivity?