26-05-1999 04:04									#31
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Even if the font makes it look a bit like the one used in Civ this is arguable just an asset, it makes the logo/cover vaguably familiar, which is very important in this day and age when brandizising is everything.

One point, is the name of the game 'The Clash of Civilizations' or just 'Clash of Civilizations'? I like the latter better.

	26-05-1999 07:17									#32
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The main reason I suggested a different font than the Microprose Civilizations was not for esthetics. Sorry that I didnt explain in the first post....

If you're going to try and make this product a commercial success, and if it "kinda sorta" looks like some other product, you face potential legal issues. The more different you are, the less likely those issues will arise.

There are other standard fonts.. Roman, Courier, I dunno.. .. just a suggestion

	26-05-1999 07:52									#33
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Hrafnkell:
Could be 'Clash of Cilizations' it doesn't sound gramatically right to me just sitting there, but game titles don't need to be gramatically correct anyway.

Druid2:
Surely having an extremely common font in a logo is no grounds for a claim... If anything I'd think Civilizations in the name would give us more trouble. But I'm certainly not up on legal technicalities in the gaming industry.

	26-05-1999 08:44									#34
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Font issue: I'm definitely not iron on this one, but as long as we stick to those two anciant portraits, definitely no non-serif font is allowed. Taking the non-serif (and all odd fancy) fonts out, Times is pretty much what's left. Most other serif fonts (apart from courier and the like) wouldn't make much of a difference to the casual observer.

Legal aspects: No problem - since I emphasized "CLASH" so heavily, we shouldn't fear anything like that. And it's "Civilizations" (plural!), so definitely (and legally correct) NOT a copy of the trademarked name, but usage of the word as a common noun... did I mention having studied law for 2 years?

But, thinking of it and to avoid any least risk - wouldn't " The CLASH of the CULTURES" (either with or without both "the") sound

a) more different from the "real thing" and
b) a bit more "classy" due to the aliteration and
c) be equally correct concerning the aim of CLASH?

	26-05-1999 17:04									#35
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IMO Clash of Cultures just doesn't have the same punch to it. Others?

	26-05-1999 18:33									#36
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I agree that there "probably" will be no problem with using the name of another game in our game, even tho this forum (FE, as evidence) talks all the time about using some of the concepts of that other game.

There was also no reason for the national burger chain, McDonalds, to sue a hi-class steak house called MacDonalds Steak House. But they did.

If Clash is not very successful it wont be an issue. I'm concerned that if it flies high, it will be a target.

......
Um.. would this game project have attracted as much interest if it hadnt had the "Civ-word" in it? if it had been called "Culture Shock" ? If your answer to that is that the C-word mattered, then there is a potential problem, down the road.

I'd rather *avoid* the problem then try and win it later against a major corporation's legal team.
........

"Struggle for Survival" ?

I dunno, I'm not good at names.. just finding problems.

	26-05-1999 22:47									#37
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Why not just sell the game to Microprose when we´re done? :-) Then there will be no risk of law suits and Microprose doesn´t have to worry over their Civ3 game, which will flop anyway :-).

	28-05-1999 03:15									#38
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Wow. You've done some great work.

I am speaking as someone who just recently stumbled on this forum, so take my comments with a grain of salt. In my opinion, when I look at the logo, I think the game is a battle between two ancient civilizations. I don't get the feeling of the growth of the civilization in time and I don't get the feeling of multiple civs. The faces in profile may be the best way to go, but I think some brainstorming should be done to be sure that there isn't a better way to go.

Haven't thought this through, but, how about a throne (applies up to recent history at least) seen from slightly below, or a bunch of tattered flags on poles with one raised way above the others (signifying conquer), or something?


------------------
Slax

	31-05-1999 03:52									#39
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Slax,

your opinion is more or less the same as Mark's, and you definitely make a valid point in the current version of the logo not showing all those aspects.

I'm still thinking how these aspects could be included, but trust me insofar as there is no use in stuffing all related things into the MAIN logo, while it might be a very good idea to let the logo be accompanied by some related attributes. The viewer wants to have a quick first impression, and it better have an emotional touch, otherwise it will be forgotten all to soon.

But at least the thing with the "only two cultures" could be addressed by having not 2, but, say 6 statues facing each other in a half circle?

The only thing I'm really afraid of is making the logo too complex (which is a VERY bad thing for a logo, where abstraction rules).

	31-05-1999 04:59									#40
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The "Faceoff": Dominique, great looking logo! I agree that simple and uncomplicated is best, and clutter will just move the buyer on to the next product.

The Gem: Even though the idea disappeared early in the thread, I think the multifaceted gem still has a role to play. On the back of the box. I'd recommend including a "sparkle" off one of the facets, which mirrors the one between Pericles and Nefretari. A nice continuity vehicle. It's also a good overall symbol, and can carry the continuity through to Clash II (yes, I'm WAY ahead of the power curve on this one, but it bears thinking about.)

The Title: "To the or not to the, that is the question...." I'm tempted to say, "flip a coin", but the marketing types will tell you that fewer words are always better. Hrafnkell may have a point, Mark.

"Clash of Cultures": The "C"'s work, but in the USA this title will never fly. The media is full of references to the "Culture Wars" (and they don't mean civ games!), and I think that title would be misinterpreted....especially since IMO the profile of Nefretari looks an awful lot like Hilary Clinton!

Legal: The use of "Civilization" in the title may very well prove legally problematic. We need look no further than the legal frenzy over Activision's use of "Civilization" in their title. Although Dominique may have a point that it's just being used as a noun, the fact is that both games will occupy the same marketing niche, and that may carry more legal weight. It wouldn't hurt to start thinking of an alternative. Here's one for you all to laugh at: "Clash and Conquest".

	31-05-1999 07:59									#41
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How about :

"You Rule!"
"World Conquest"
"Clash of Empires"
"When Civilizations Attack!" (or is that a Fox program?)
"Quest for Glory" (I think thats been used)


------------------
Slax

	31-05-1999 14:36									#42
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What about Super Civ ?

Blade Runner

	04-06-1999 17:21									#43
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Dominique:

Love the logo,especially the later versions, only comment is that I prefer the color balance on the original nefertiti logo, IMHO I think it has more impact with nefertiti in blue, (not so glaring). For asian male how about Mao Tse Dung (sp?), represents a lot of change in modern age.

Rebel


BTW Clash of Empires sounds good but won't you have the same problems with AOE (and microsoft is a LOT touchier about infringement.

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 04, 1999).]

	05-06-1999 01:48									#44
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Okay, I get the impression that there's a general agreement to the current logo version - the various (by no means bad or unimportant!) ideas how to change it seem to drift in several directions, so it seems this version is (for the moment being) the way to go.

I leave it to Mark to make some final changes... or to anyone who could point me to a suitable PROFILE picture of a leader. Anyway, since the new, revamped web site will have to be built soon, there's a need to have some "first focus". Fine tuning should be left for later...

	05-06-1999 04:30									#45
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Dominique:

I've started a thread advertising our need for more pix. Hopefully we can get something ideal fairly soon.

-Mark

	08-06-1999 09:38									#46
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I think the game title "The Clash of Civilizations" is too long.

Can't it be made shorter?

Maybe "Clash of Civilizations"?

Because saying "The" Is saying ONE type of Clash.

Or maybe the whole thing needs to be changed?

I cant think of any better idea's...

"Civilization: Rebirth"? ..no that doesn't fit..

We are talking about a game, where you the player, is the leader of a race of people, and your task is to help the race of people grow and survive.

So what about a name something that represents this?

I dunno...I am just pointing out that the name "The Clash of Civilizations" should be improved to something more suitable.

	12-07-2001 18:56									#47
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I suggest that the logo sticks to one font, but the existing logo otherwise looks good. I created a couple of modifications - http://www.geocities.com/hs_monthly/cevo/logo2.jpg and http://www.geocities.com/hs_monthly/cevo/logo3.jpg
Admittedly the old ones by Dominique look better, probably.

	16-07-2001 03:26									#48
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when I first looked at the logo on this web site, I felt that the logo looks too complicated. I think that to make a quite detailed logo requires quite a lot of artistic sense, you can make something very good out of that, but it is very easy to make something quite bad looking. If we can't find someone with greate graphic design talent, maybe we should go for a simple and abstract one.

I happen to have the book of The Clash Of Civilizations, The picture of the book cover is composed of three individual pictures, each one with a symbol(cross, Taiji, Moon) represents the western, chinese, Islam civilization. The design is not good in my opinion, but it is quite abract and expresive.

The logo that I can think of is like this: background is a world map, foreground are three swords form a triangle, each sword should be designed to represent one of the three major civilizations as mentioned in the booK of Clash.

just a suggestion, anyway, I would prefer a logo simple, abstract but very expresive.

chuliang

	16-07-2001 04:46									#49
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Hi Nath: I've tried to see your links twice, but I always get 'page not available'.

chuliang: Hmmm.... I personally rather like the current logo. It was not meant to be the final execution, just a 'rough draft'. I really dislike using something like swords to represent civs, since that over-emphasizies the military aspect IMO. BTW our Clash has absolutely nothing to do with the book, I haven't even read it. So I don't want to emphasize any parallels with the book, since in my mind, they don't exist, except perhaps by accident. But thanks for the suggestions

	16-07-2001 11:53									#50
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Here they are. If your browser doesn't display them, right click and select 'Show Picture' (if you use IE).

	25-07-2001 16:17									#51
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Why not a more abstract version of the current logo? (just the contours of the statues in blue and red, on a yellowish or purple background, with fat black lines, in a circle...I'll try to cook up something)
On the name: 'Clash' is really the indispensable part of the title. We could use it stand-alone, with a subtitle (of civilizations; of empires; of cultures; command your culture; combat, cash & culture; culture combat; ...)
The legalistic stuff: get a signed paper from everyone who could prosecute that they won't, before we have any success with the game.

Anyway, everyone on the forum refers to Clash as 'Clash'.