10-06-1999 08:16									#1
	Clash Version Alpha -1 --- [drumroll please!!] Tired of ads?

Not a version of the program at all, actually, but a necessary step.

Pre-Alpha software:

I suggest that we write some utility software that will have some modules that we will need eventually: *The Scenario Editor*

This will let us have:

* file IO & structure for the game.sav file
* map creator/editor (which we will need no matter what)
* the map display routines
* user interfaces for display & edit of the various elements [research, military, econ, etc etc.]
* data structures that are common to all the module elements [note: we dont have them all yet! 6/9]

Those are all important, but equally important is:
* working out the bugs on a jointly written, but separately produced program

.....and no need to mess with the AI logic yet.

------------

Programming team for this phase looks like

Blade Runner - editors for display/change of various features. Start w/ military where we have most detail so far.
JimC - map editor & display
F_Smith - user interface [not avail until after 6/21]
maneurein - file IO and sav file structure
Mark - In addition to everything else he's doing, I'd hope he'll be able to pinch hit for me in helping the other dukes organize their "sentences" into "data structures"
Druid - I'm not a coder, but I'll be working w/ other dukes on data-izing concepts, and also will be on vacation 6/19-27.
Dominique - GFX, of course. and whoever else he can get to help. We will need some gfx for the map, units and etc. But it can be rudimentary, and rough, intended to be replace with "the good stuff" later.

Obviously this is not cast in stone, and if I have left out someone who thinks that he/she can help... SING OUT.. there's plenty of work to go around.

--------------------

Thereafter, I have in mind:

The Alpha 0 version.

Which will have:

* minimal AI - maybe some scripts, maybe not
* gfx
* user interface stuff
* ability to "play a turn", see all the screens

and by then we will have the web site bug reporting thing working.

	10-06-1999 15:03									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Ok Druid, since I've been assigned to it I will handle the IO/file structure for this pre-alpha ;-).

But what are u awaiting exactly?
Should I design this from ground or do u already have things in mind?

Well, I'm at your disposition, please let me know exactly where u want me to go.

Manu.

[This message has been edited by manurein (edited June 10, 1999).]

	10-06-1999 18:08									#3
	Got spare money?

Um, can I suggest a first step?

We need an 'architecture' first.

I'd suggest something like:

1) GameClass.class -- main game code class
a) PregameScreen.class
b) LoadScenario.class
c) EditScenario.class
d) MPConnect.class
e) GameThread.class (all the game turn code).

	10-06-1999 18:50									#4
	Tired of ads?

(pointing up to F_Smith's post)

Yeah.. what he said!

	10-06-1999 19:12									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Somebody is going to have to take the role of 'lead programmer / designer' to handle the high level OOD and the integration of all coded modules.

Otherwise the whole programming effort is going to be a shambles.

Jim

	10-06-1999 20:08									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Druid2:

Wow, talk about lack of truth in advertising when you named this thread Do you have a secret yearning for marketing?

Hey All:

We've made a lot of progress, and I would throw a small party if not for the problem that we're all in different countries and stuff Pushing the limits further is great, but I think we need a Real Design Document that covers the coding before we can take on any of this stuff in a sensible manner. IMO we can start talking about the 'pre-alpha' stuff at the top, but Should Not commit to a particular plan yet. IMO its basically too early. The path we'd pick right now, may not be the right way to do it, the information isn't there yet. We need some discussion on what to do first. Basically we've finished Step 1 of our process, the high-level specs for each of the game models. As for what I think should come next I will quote from the process doc that everyone at least implicitly agreed to:

quote: STEP 2: Once we have the high-level mechanics / specs document we can take the first real look at the specific interfaces for different game elements, and the coding design spec. Handshaking between the major "functional" groups needs to take place here. In parallel, the Dukes in charge of Military... models will need to, with their teams, put specifics on all the generalities previously in their models. Some of the simpler models may be ready fairly soon and could move on to Step 3 ahead of the general schedule. I propose we finish STEP 2 by 6/30/99. Some parts will be finished before this. Those things that get to the right level of specificity before the deadline will move into early STEP 3 Activity. STEP 3 Each game model (Military...) is basically done at this point, barring further revisions. One thing the 'game model' designers could do at this point is to help with strategies for the AI to use in their part of the game. Artwork should be getting into full production mode. Interface design for all the game areas should be finalized early in Step 3. Design for Coding at Modules and interfaces between modules level should be completed early in Step 3. [edited 6/10 by me because previous statement made no sense] AI for the specific game models can be planned out here too. Handshaking beteen game design, art design, and both interface and 'guts' coding team needs to be strong here too. For each area, when Step 3 is done the respective teams / sub-teams can go on to Step 4. By the end of Step 3 we will have covered the contents of a solid design doc, and will finalize the doc. I propose we finish STEP 3 by 7/30/99.

IMO we have much to do in the process before we start coding in earnest. We may be able to do a Little bit on coding before the design doc is finished, and now is surely time to Talk about coding issues with respect to game models. But we have to be very careful to avoid leaping ahead or as Jim said it will be a shambles.

-Mark

	11-06-1999 09:24									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Mark,

I agree that it's early ... but I also hate to see useful programmers sitting around just playing some other game...

And we're not going to have the design doc/plan for several more months.

Hence my preemptive leap into programming, violating my own request for design work.
I think we can let 'em go and do some of this --- editors and etc --- ... and it wont be wasted.

But if y'all feel differently, I will defer, of course.

----------
JimC: As for lead programmer, that would be Mark, who else?

	10-06-1999 22:27									#8
	Tired of ads?

Hey Druid:

I agree Some programming could be done now, and thanks for getting this going. However I think we need to have a discussion first as to what those things are. There are things on your list that I don't think we're ready for yet. We don't want to get something going only to find out we need to redo 50% of it later. And at least as I understand serialization in Java, I/O Could be a Much smaller module than contemporary C++ standards.

Another issue is that most of the programmers are currently also the duke of something and have responsibilities that apply directly towards getting the design doc going. And JimC is still making progress on the MapAI which can be done largely independently of the other game elements IMO.

So I guess my first question is "Who doesn't have anything to do with respect to completing the game rules doc or coding doc?". When we find out who Is available I think the first item would be asking what those 'accelerated' coding elements might be. At some point we should advertise for more coders (my thought was when the design doc is a little further along and the new web site is up). At that point the dynamics might well change to a case were we do have significant idle programmers, who we'd put to work in whatever way we can.

Sorry this is so brief, and without much proofreading, but I need to get back to the work they're paying me for!

-Mark