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Elias
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Wow thats a lot of replies for one day. while I do enjoy the fact the the races arnt Identical in warcraft it is too much of an RPG wanna be when it should be more of a stradagy game. Im ok with having remakes and expanding on good games but when no one has any original Ideas even If its just going into a clone it just frustrates me. I am still amazed that WC3 is so popular when it just seems like a terrible game to me.
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
It's not random. Drops are based on creature levels, with items also having 'levels'.
On release stone tokens were imbalanced, because they dropped from creatures too low. There were also doomguards on some maps......most problems were summon based.
Nowadays the item drops are balanced. Yeah you can get nice items if you creep hard creeps, but these wont be available early, and creeping hard creeps is a double-edged sword.
In short, in 1.16 it's fine. |
drspike, i didnt bring up teh fact items drops are based on level, cause that weakens my argument. 
I know but there is still imbalance among same level items. Yes now everyone will know im just *****ing at a small imperfection. But like you said, summon based items are really powerful in general... especially in early game where you get a unit lead to tank and boost to rush etc.
Also, some monsters are on % to drop items. meaning they may or may not drop anything. Now, most significant level monsters are always 100%, but those low level item advantages can sometimes help. So you might have a lucky day with percentage, but your opponent might not. Getting more heal potion and low level scrolls? that is random.
Well then again, here's a man who perfectly enjoys a poker game without any complaints and we all know how random the hand you're dealt can be..... even if I got five 2,7 off suit in a row.... so I guess im being super *****y about wc3.
Last edited by Zero on 14-08-2004 at 10:23
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pg
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quote:
Originally posted by Trajanus
I don't like RTS games entirely based on unit strats. I want combat strategy. It's a bit like RPGs. It doesn't matter what you do, just attack (and buff, and throw some spells in) and depending on your strategy you will win or not. But you can't make unit movements that allow tactics. That's what I like about AoK. I sort of like unit formations and launching meticulously planned attacks. |
heh, are you joking? wc3(which i think your comment is aimed at) and practically all rts have immense combat strategy with formations/complex movements but generally it is much harder to do than aoe because of the micro required. rpgs are generally much staler in combat as they have less intangibles than rts. the intangibles being micro, various timings, unit movement, economy, time management, etc.
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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Yeah one thing I like about WC3 is that more you're able to micro more reward you get! In any match where you really wanna win, you'd NEVER just sit back and relax. I really learned to appreciate hero because of this. It provides micros to do anytime. ESPECIALLY in the beginning where traditional RTSes have one of those "choose a preprogrammed build order, automate it and relax" routine. Instead, with hero you'd be trying to squeeze in just one more micro action over ur opponent everytime. 
quote:
just to give an example the first time i play quake 1 maps it only takes me a few minutes to master each dm level and figure out the best routes because i am very experienced with that game. what is disheartening is that this skill basically cares over to all other fps where i've basically become really proficient. it might not make sense but i like sucking for a while and having to learn trail and error. this applies to pretty much all game types now rts/mmorpg/fps/tbs/etc as they are have similar patterns. i don't mind remake but i need new patterns to crack! |
unfortunately, you're always going to start out somewhat proficient. After all, to be defined as a same genre, its gonna require sharing some very general rules which you will be all too familiar with. Throwing tweaks and changes in gameplay and adjusting to that will always be a challenge. But I totally understand what you are saying. Picking up all the fighters seem just too natural for me. Even when playing Dragon ball budokai and smash brothers, which is quite radically different from how most fighting game work and has alot of stuff for me to adjust to, i just have edge over other non fighter players that makes it easier for me. You can't get rid of that experience factor when playing the same genre.
This is why I play multiple genres. I don't want to be the #1 in any game really I just enjoy the challenge of competitive play. Challenge runs out (well it never does, i can always seek the best until im #1, but im saying within reason.. not travelling around the world level) in genre due to game dying out, or just being too familiar with it. In that situation, I advise you pickup new genres. Starting completely new at scrub level just whoring knowledge is fun and exciting times. (although yes, getting comfortable with execution issue in new types of games is always a problem.. i think its worth it)
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
Comparing Starcraft to Warcraft 2 is in favor of Starcraft, Warcraft 2 was a good game, but Starcraft was MUCH better. |
I don't see how either can be said to be a good game.
For starters, the SP campaigns in both are absolutely horrible. All the scenarios are just of the "puzzle solving" variety, which means you keep doing the same one until you find the sequence of steps to perform, esp. the ones where you cannot build. No strategy is involved. This is both very boring and frustrating at the same time.
The MP games essentially are click-fests plus rote memorisation of the maps. It's just not important enough for me to get CTS.
quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
Now, Warcraft 3. There are 4 factions, all different. Smaller amounts of units (lower pop cap, units cost more, upkeep that lowers gold income as you have more units) and longer battles (units made stronger by having higher stats) are encouraged to allow for micromanagement. |
Ah, micromanagement for a real-time game. Excellent, it's just what everybody has been waiting for. It may even be the cure for cancer.
quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
All units have some kind of special upgrade or ability, like huntress's owls and moon glaives, the pulverise ability of the Tauren, the berserk ability of the troll berserker (gained by an upgrade from troll headhunter). Even the workers are different! |
Ho hum, it's rock, paper, scissors, with Tiger Hand thrown in.
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
That's what patches and expansions are for. I am not going to pay for something that the developers should have done right in the first place, again. |
If the game is completely craptasic. Yeah, releasing a remade game for sonsumer to buy would be a dirty move. but that isn't the norm. Most games that get remade usually build alot more upon a game that had alot of potential.
Most Gamers (especially PC) are so ****ing spoiled IMO. And really retarded. Most gamers would be willing to pay for a exact same game with a face lift, but complain like a mofo if they see a same exact looking game with immense balance change. Street fighter: world warrior VS SuperStreet Fighter Turbo is not the same game. And its not just adding 4 new characters. Its near decade of fine tuned game balancing between the 2 game. And most PC gamers would just expect patches like that to just come out for absolutely no cost.
Blizzard does that **** and its simply amazing. Patching and expansion is just awesome. I mean it would just give any hardcore fighting gamer a wetdream since we've traditionally re-released the game, and we had to rebuy an updated version. Even so, any fighter gamer will tell you, paying for small calculation changes in the game system is worth every single penny? Why? Cause it radically changes the game. Playing my top tier guild could get a lil boring for my opponent, so lil change such as 'guile's sonic boom has more frame disadvantage while other people's fireball has slight increase in frame recovery' would make game play out completely different again. Its a really really simple task of edditing values. Yeah... it seems such a trivial task. But how much work does it require to find these kind of changes? Thousands of playtesting and extremely good players. It seems to me that patching completely spoils the ungrateful bastards that doesnt see that trying to make a fine game is tremendous amount of work. Just be thankful that you EVEN get a patch... There's nothing to complain when you get a remaked game that IMPROVES gameplay. WTF.
Last edited by Zero on 16-08-2004 at 12:28
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Gamecube64
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of Persia
Apr 2004
time: 23:34
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quote:
Is Diablo 2 still worthwhile to buy those days? There's no public information on a new Diablo in works right? |
Blizzard North is currently working on an unannounced project, Diablo 3 is a possibility.
Judging by how long it took them to get the latest Diablo patch out, I think they have probably been working on it since Lord of Destruction came out (Unless they got paid to work very slowly on patching it...), so it should be announced soon, maybe when WoW comes out to keep the hype wagon churning.
Last edited by Gamecube64 on 16-08-2004 at 21:16
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pg
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i think you are over simplifying vastly. game mechanices are the similar because it's a rts, duh. you can't even call it a remake, it's clearly a sequel. have you even played wc2 and wc3? wc3 is much deeper in every way than wc2. new tactics/strategies, build orders, micro, bnet, sheer numbers of units/spells/buildings, etc are complexity upon complexity above and beyond wc2.
why do you have such an axe to grind with blizzard's games? did one of them kill your cat?
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by pg
i think you are over simplifying vastly. game mechanices are the similar because it's a rts, duh. you can't even call it a remake, it's clearly a sequel. have you even played wc2 and wc3? wc3 is much deeper in every way than wc2. new tactics/strategies, build orders, micro, bnet, sheer numbers of units/spells/buildings, etc are complexity upon complexity above and beyond wc2.
why do you have such an axe to grind with blizzard's games? did one of them kill your cat? |
No PG, UR is soo right. You and I know jackshit. Clearly counter strike and UT2k4 is a remake of wolfenstein 3d. The way you shoot at ur enemies? boring. Cant they innovate better than that? The concept is too similar. FPSes suck.
And RPGs? Man those hitpoints and spells are lame. And why do racing games all have cars that go around in circuits? Man I can make a better game than that these lame foolzzzzz!!!1!!!!!
quote:
Okay, so you got these heroes. Otherwise, there is no difference in the game mechanics. |
Completely ignoring the fact that hero isnt the only thing WC3 has it going..... you realize how much game changes hero makes in a typical match of WC3? Entire unit builds and strategies are planned around the type of primary hero you plan out.....
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14-08-2004 06:34
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