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grobnok
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Is it good to stay on the defense when a fanatic faction attacks you? or should you try to capture their bases?
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:35
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Defense can mean many things. However, if someone like Miriam declares war on you, sometimes it's just better to let it go and not attack them, simply because, it would be a very costly war and chances are they would take advantage of the leave of troops. Direct defense, which when you literally let them attack your units and hope your armor holds out, is not a good idea, considering that weapon values are always higher than armor values. However, defense can also include attacking. For example, if you attack their units when they are near your base, your units are still in your base, but the odds are in your hands because weapon values are better. Ultimately though, it depends on the situation, and the technology of your weapons and armor, as well as the enemy's. Think of it this way:
Say you have a 1-3-1 unit and a 4-1-1 unit in your base. The enemy approaches with a 4-3-1 unit. If all units were disciplined, and the 4-3-1 unit attacked the 1-3-1, it would win, odds 4/3. These odds would be even greater if the unit was fanatic. However, if the 4-1-1 unit attacked the 4-3-1 unit before it could attack the base, then it would have odds of winning of 4/3. In this case, attacking the enemy first would be better, particularly if it is fanatic.
Say, however, that your base has a perimeter defense, essentially making the armor value of the 1-3-1 unit a value of 6. Even with a fanatic bonus of 25%, bringing the attack value to 5, the garrison unit would have an advantage, 6/5. While this is not as good as attacking the 4-3-1 unit first, with odds of 4/3, if, say, your 4-1-1 unit had low morale, and the 4-3-1 unit had high morale, or had a defensive bonus like rocky square or forest or fungus, it would be better to play sole defense.
Of course, most players in this situation would probably let the unit attack first, then clean it up with the 4-1-1 if the 4-3-1 had a significant defense advantage...
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grobnok
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But won't they eventually take your bases after many attempts? Because your chance of destroying them is 0 because you are not attacking and even if their chance of destroying you is 2 percent after many attempts/waves they will eventually take your bases.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by grobnok
But won't they eventually take your bases after many attempts? Because your chance of destroying them is 0 because you are not attacking and even if their chance of destroying you is 2 percent after many attempts/waves they will eventually take your bases. |
Nope
The computer player plays very stupidly and will usually keep coming at you down the same land route. Whether you defend or attack depends on the circumstances but I will pretty much NEVER mount an expedition to take out an AI unless I see a good profit in it for me. The fact that they are sniping at me is irrelevant. So if I have decided to defend, I have to decide how to defend.
My preference is active defense, which essentially means killing the enemy as they come in... Done right you don't allow them at your bases . The idea is they are attacking so they have to come at you sooner or later. Basic set up is to run some roads THAT YOU CAN CONTROL, across some rocky tiles. Pair up a few best weapon rovers with a high morale Garrison. They sit in their defensive position on a rocky tile with a couple of one tile roads leading out from them. Each turn a rover rolls out, kills something and rolls back. In ideal situations, you have the killing zone set up so you can hit the enemy where thay get no terrain modifiers. In super ideal situations, you will have a nearby monolith to heal your troops and your sensor net will be sufficient that you never get hit by suprise.
When linked by land to an attacking AI, I have never seen them do anything other than dribble units and my experience has been that you usually end up with a couple of elite rovers that could hold the kill zone indefintely from land attack. The key is usually to NOT get ambitious and advance toward the enemy since then you create situations where THEY get the first shot.
Its a bit different with amphibious assault since the computer doesn't seem to mindlessly follow the same attack routes. But then again its transports seem to be unescorted and its a pretty simple matter to kill the incoming force.
As an aside you can then mine your roaded rocky squares and add crawlers-- even armour them if you wish
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grobnok
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Will they eventually declare a ceasefire if they lost huge amounts of troops? or will they just keep pumping out troops?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
never rely on armour. always attack. |
Change those from 100% absolutisms to something true 98% of the time and I agree.
Weapons usually are twice the power of available armour
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grobnok
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I'm playing on libarian.
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Mead
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
***
My preference is active defense, which essentially means killing the enemy as they come in... Done right you don't allow them at your bases . The idea is they are attacking so they have to come at you sooner or later. Basic set up is to run some roads THAT YOU CAN CONTROL, across some rocky tiles. Pair up a few best weapon rovers with a high morale Garrison. They sit in their defensive position on a rocky tile with a couple of one tile roads leading out from them. Each turn a rover rolls out, kills something and rolls back. In ideal situations, you have the killing zone set up so you can hit the enemy where thay get no terrain modifiers. In super ideal situations, you will have a nearby monolith to heal your troops and your sensor net will be sufficient that you never get hit by suprise.
*** |
Flubber has it right.
Harry them as they approach your holdings.
Set up the battlefield so that you have good kill zones.
Have a good defensive position that you can rest/repair units, maintain good survelliance (via sensors and/or Aircraft if availaible).
Kill them as they approach you, then withdraw to heal.
Mead
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Mead
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
never rely on armour. always attack. But depending on your police rating, staying in your territory is sometimes necessary or desired. |
I tend to agree with you. Although usually, I assume a defensive position until I can launch a decisive (quick) offensive.
A few times you may consider a defensive pose will be if you hold a good defensive choke point.
One of my favorite things is to set up a good defensive position - Think sensor under the base, creche, perimeter, tachyon, AC. Garrison it with well-armored AAA units. Put some good strike units in it to 'reach out and touch the approcing ememy masses (rovers/choppers). Add some probes. On a choke point with limited access in front o the base (but with flat/rolly, not rocky terrain).
It doesn't happen that much nowadays with the benefits of using drop n' drop for a blitz offensive through the AI once you get choppers, but I guess it could still happen if you and the AI was roughly evenly matched (or you were a little behind). Maybe in a one city challenge?
Mead
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Zeiter
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I think one needs to have a good mix of offensive and defensive units for defense. In one of my latest games as Morgan, I got situated right in the middle of Santiago, Yang, and a Monsoon Miriam. Yep, a builder's paradise. Pretty soon I was at war with all three of them. It was very tough going, because we were all mostly technologically even (missle weapons) and all of my troops were either green or very green. Even worse, the approach to my land from Miriam's land was completely either rocky or forested. Thus, my very green 6-1-2 rovers would get slaughtered by Miriam's commando 6-3-1 infantry in rocky or forest squares with a sensor nearby. Thus, I decided defense might be the best course. I managed to get silksteel armor, and I set up a wall of rocky/bunker tiles with ample sensors nearby. My cheap silksteel sentinels would get a 125% bonus in these tiles (rocky +50%, bunker +50%, sensor +25%). And even better, those bonuses applied to air attacks too, which made this defense substantially better than defending from my bases. So, Miriam would march her 6-3-1s and 6-2-2s over, and we'd trade roughly equal blows, which was good because my 1-4-1 sentinels were much cheaper to replace. I'd also mix a few cheap 6-1-1 artillery and a few 6-1-2s into the mix to harry some of the weaker units, like the 6-2-2s or 6-1-2s. So, this defensive trench-like stalemate continued for about fifty years. Meanwhile, I concentrated on staging offensives against other weaker foes, and finally, when I had half of the world conquered, then I finally built up a massive force to go on the offensive against the Believers, who were still quite potent. Finally, after all of this defense, the counterattack was ready, and I managed to break through the Believer's front lines and nullify their forested defensive positions. After that, the rest was easy. So, I must say, there is a time and place for passive defense. But usually, I've found that active defense is superior in most cases.
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Natalinasmpf
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quote:
Weapons usually are twice the power of available armour |
Psi Defense, anyone? With Neural Amp?
Usually defense is good in the right situations. One would mix a defense garrison for example, in a crucial stack, or to support your active defense. An AAA garrison to guard your rover, or an ECM, or a resonance trance against fervent opponents who use locusts....
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grobnok
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I never played any other faction. Is the game balanced? Why does the gaians have the highest tech and overall strength?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
quote:
Weapons usually are twice the power of available armour |
Psi Defense, anyone? With Neural Amp?
.... |
Artllery knocks the stuffing out of native life -- So build a native force-- One artillery round will inflict 50-90% damage and then a scout 1-1-1 can finish you off
As someone pointed out, attackers start with only a 150% advantage-- so if empath and trance cancel each other out, the neural amplifier gets the psi defender to equality with the attacker . ..
Only problem is the attacker can cost far less than your defender
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by grobnok
I never played any other faction. Is the game balanced? Why does the gaians have the highest tech and overall strength? |
yes it is balanced
They don't usually
They don't more than any other faction.
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grobnok
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But when I check the Dedire always beat me in tech by being the first. Is my copy of the game defective?
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grobnok
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The morganites are not doing well. I have to give them one of my bases to save them from being conquered. Dedire skye always has the technological superiority. I'm going for the mathematical and physical techs like optical computers and super string theory. At the start I'm always at the top. the gaians are not always in jungles. All the aggressive factions like peacekeepers are strong.
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13-08-2004 18:53
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