15-08-2004 23:53									#1
	SLIC-MP-PBEM Question 8-15-04 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have been getting VERY weird occurences playing PBEM games and made me think!

I know for sure I am not tweaking files (or otherwise referred to as cheating).

I am however in a game playing pbem in the OFT2 and previously OFT One where as IIRC we had bombardment messages, city growth messages and of course choose you own tech message.

My question is if these "file tweaks" go from "acceptable" games (where everyone is aware)to "Non-acceptable" games (a normal game where no file alterations are allowed) whats to prevent other files "UNDETECTED" from being used, subtle changes perhaps known only to host?

Ok..I am hosting (or perhaps setup the game for better terminology) most of the PBEM game but a few I am not.

Most games and of the say 11-12 I am involved in all sorts of things are weird...

from the messages that get sent to the options offered when you should "accept" or "reject" an offer

Ok..

Hows this..

I am toying with getting a couple of games going with some folks here with maybe no pirating-no pillaging..

maybe even a pw SLIC if I have that in my pc does the other have to have it?

If so ok..if not how does the OFT Series work?

I didnt download or install any special files?

Ok..anyone have any answers?

Peace

Grandpa "Wants to be in the know" Troll

	17-08-2004 06:19									#2
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hmm..I just knew someone would address this issue?

C'mon..someone must have an answer

	17-08-2004 21:17									#3
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As for playing with custom SLIC files for PW or whatever, you may want to summon Martin Guhmann or Locutus.

As for strange options in diplo proposals, they're caused by different language versions of the game...

	17-08-2004 23:38									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Solver As for playing with custom SLIC files for PW or whatever, you may want to summon Martin Guhmann or Locutus. As for strange options in diplo proposals, they're caused by different language versions of the game...

No Solver I am not talking about the way it is stated but more like for accept might be "upload.tga000567" and reject might besomething as weird...

	18-08-2004 00:39									#5
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Yes, exactly. If I load a save from an English version, I get weird stuff instead of accept and reject.

	18-08-2004 00:54									#6
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ok..maybe thats why??

I will monitor more closely...I am currently playing with Germans,French, Canadians, fellow Americans and an assorted mish mash of the dregs of other worlds..

(JUST KIDDING FOLKS)

I will see if this occurs where they hosted...

Solver ever seen a diety level game have an ai in ancient time in begginning turns offer you 2000 gold before it had the opportunity to make that much?

I have very odd indeed....


Gramps

	18-08-2004 03:12									#7
	Re: SLIC-MP-PBEM Question 8-15-04 Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll maybe even a pw SLIC if I have that in my pc does the other have to have it? If so ok..if not how does the OFT Series work? I didnt download or install any special files? Ok..anyone have any answers?

Here is what I found out when I did the programming of the OFT scenario: The map (including cities, units, ruins etc.) and the SLIC code are stored within the turn files. You cannot modify them in a running game (but possibly you can start a new game with modified map and/or SLIC code using a saved game as starting point without anyone noticing...). The text files, icons, language translations and maybe more are not stored within the saved file (which also causes the funny texts on the buttons in the message boxes). So it is very important to keep a clean copy of these. This is also the reason why for some scenarios all players need to have the scenario files installed and for others they don't. SLIC-only scenarios (those that contain just additional triggers and messages, like OFT) are needed only by the creator of the match, since the SLIC code is stored in the saved file once the game is created.

	18-08-2004 04:24									#8
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ok..teach mea country boy something sir:

How would anyone "KNOW" for sure that a person has a SLIC File running??

Isnt it possible for a person to SLIC something up and no one be the wiser?

Maybe give the starting player the advantage subtly..little pw here little gold there small science advantage rate..nothing tooo obvious?

I know that with many people helping I have a SLIC with PW whereas I got say "20" pw per POP count per city per turn..

so if I had 10 cities X 2 pop count (20) I would get 20 pw times 20 pop count per turn..

Just asking is all..

Thanks

Gramps

	18-08-2004 18:07									#9
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quote: Solver ever seen a diety level game have an ai in ancient time in begginning turns offer you 2000 gold before it had the opportunity to make that much?

I'm fairly sure it gets more money than you'd think on Deity...

	18-08-2004 20:00									#10
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll ok..teach mea country boy something sir: How would anyone "KNOW" for sure that a person has a SLIC File running?? Isnt it possible for a person to SLIC something up and no one be the wiser? Maybe give the starting player the advantage subtly..little pw here little gold there small science advantage rate..nothing tooo obvious? I know that with many people helping I have a SLIC with PW whereas I got say "20" pw per POP count per city per turn.. so if I had 10 cities X 2 pop count (20) I would get 20 pw times 20 pop count per turn.. Just asking is all.. Thanks Gramps

Do you mean something like this :

trigger 'My small advantage: Get me some PW!' when (g.player == 1) {
  c = 0;
  additionalPW = 0;
  while (c < player.cities) {
    SetCityByIndex(1, g.player, c);
    additionalPW = additionalPW + (city.1.population * 20);
    c = c + 1;
  }
  currentPW = player.publicworkslevel;
  SetPW(g.player, currentPW + additionalPW);
}

	18-08-2004 23:31									#11
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ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH! Good points, Troll, and example hatschy. Maybe I should go back to just playing FULLY MODERATED games, like Mobius I from Flying Buffalo. (Anybody know what I'm talking about? )

	19-08-2004 02:39									#12
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Se..I see some things and well..to come to the point and without naming names and getting into a long drawn out discussion, I see suspicious things..


@ Solver.. THIS PICTURE IS FROM TURN -35-

I will say this the gift range is NOT 2000 when meeting a new civ..NEVER! EVER! in thousands of games have i ever ran into a civ and they up and offer me 2000 gold NEVER EVER!

I would expect that Solver maybe..maybe later stages but not within first 35 turns of a game..very odd so i am attaching a picture to prove my point


ok..@ Quinns and everyone else here

I got upset before decided I would have anything to do with PBEM then i thought, this game is fun and I will play it for what its worth, ENTERTAINMENT VALUE

I emailed lots behind the scenes and after awhile realized that it doesnt make a hill of beans in the long run

i am involved in 12 + games having fun and well..I will simply ask here out in the open for something to be explained..if it can fine if not well at least i share it with the community..

I am sorry that people would ever feel the need to do anything to defeat me.. ME Grandpa Troll...I love to play but am not a math wiz (no intended slur to Mathemagician)

I dont get down and count the tiles to produce "X" science and "X" gold and so forth I do have my style and have fun playing..

We all do remember "FUN" dont we..

Ok..Back to gaming and well enjoy I know I am..and will come here to get questions answered if possible..

Thanks all for the input

Gramps

Attachment: turn -35- allied and axels-8-14-04.jpg
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

	19-08-2004 13:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll I will say this the gift range is NOT 2000 when meeting a new civ..NEVER! EVER! in thousands of games have i ever ran into a civ and they up and offer me 2000 gold NEVER EVER! I would expect that Solver maybe..maybe later stages but not within first 35 turns of a game..very odd so i am attaching a picture to prove my point

In difficulty level "Deity" AIs start with two settlers, 500 PW and 8000 gold. You can easily verify this yourself: Start a hot seat match level "Deity" with at least one AI. After launching the match, open the chat window, type "/detach {number}", where {number} is the index of the AI player (blue=1, orange=2, ...). End your turn and you'll be prompted to play the former AI's turn.

	20-08-2004 01:28									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by hatschy In difficulty level "Deity" AIs start with two settlers, 500 PW and 8000 gold. You can easily verify this yourself: Start a hot seat match level "Deity" with at least one AI. After launching the match, open the chat window, type "/detach {number}", where {number} is the index of the AI player (blue=1, orange=2, ...). End your turn and you'll be prompted to play the former AI's turn.

Ok..but I have never ever received that much gold after meeting an ai..NEVER

What I am saying is it is odd..very odd...I would have to look to see what is the range but never had that not even at a lower level where they "Pay More' or give more gifts..

Peace

Gramps

	20-08-2004 02:54									#15
	Got spare money?

It happened to me more than one time. If you meet an AI civ before the AI had enough time to spend all the money, you'll receive a lot. Try to play on a small map with 7 AI players and you'll see.

	20-08-2004 03:11									#16
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Ok..Like I stated I am gonna start asking questions here because I have played CTP almost every single day for 6 years now (since game came out..with very few exceptions..and have never ever got that muich..

I have in a demand yes

BUT never when walking up

1 turn a diplomatic "exchange maps" then next turn here is 2000 gold

Never ever

Ok..since YOU say you have its now official then that it happens..

ok...1800 days played (thats saying 50 weeks a year times 6 years time 6 days a week)

Ok the "odds" are for me at least 1 in 1800 days....

NOW thats just days..say 1800 days times say an average of 6 turns a day (including the marathon games of playing 10+ hours when i was injured and an average of a turn every 2-3 minutes say 200 turns in a day per game..but just estimating here) ok so I am now looking at almost 11000 turns

1 turn in 11000 this happened...


still odd to me my friend

ok..so you have seen this instance I described on a normal? semi-normal or rarity happeneing?

Not demanding not over time..but when you first meet early in game?

Ok...

Just "odd" to me is all

Bruce

	29-08-2004 05:55									#17
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Ok..strange but true..look at the screenie here..anyone see ANYTHING SUSPICIOUS and please note the year..and I am way ahead in tech by the way..

Attachment: funny city image.jpg
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	29-08-2004 18:31									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What game is that

I thiink I saw that very same city. it looked a bit odd. But forgot about it till now.

	29-08-2004 22:25									#19
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate What game is that I thiink I saw that very same city. it looked a bit odd. But forgot about it till now.

Its in me and Blackgryffin game "Seafood Buffet"

Just odd that this would happen....oddities in a lot of games is all...

Gramps

	30-08-2004 02:09									#20
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The graphics and the game engine in your match are badly out of sync. The image below is part of a screenshot I made when I opened turn 168 of the game (you sent that one to me some time ago) in cheat mode. As you can see, the game engine knows the city is on the island, but the graphics engine believes it is in the ocean, thus drawing the sprite of an undersea city.

Attachment: badlyoutofsync.jpg
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	30-08-2004 05:23									#21
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Ok..I buy that, but is it because me and Blackgryffin are using different versions?

Thanks for the input

Gramps

	30-08-2004 23:59									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I just tried to find an explanation for the graphics error, but I don't know the reason for the game running out of sync. Sorry.

	31-08-2004 02:35									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

thanks

	03-09-2004 04:54									#24
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Ok..here is an odd one as well:

Pink01 is actually just been over run

#1-shows blue but is actually reoccupied by pink
#2-that 1 machine gunner is actually a 5 stack of 4 musketeers and 1 machine gunner PLUS it is not to the south but one tile NORTH of the city.

#3-The city is there it is also filled with troops which is understandable but not showing is the troops stacked amazingly around it..

VERY STRANGE

Also look at the message, not an altered game like ONE FRE TECH but get these frickin messages..

Ok..I am gonna post one more

Attachment: czar troll's vs dimytes 9-02-04.jpg
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	03-09-2004 04:57									#25
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I just noticed the date is 1420 when attacked and my turn is 1425..is that a normal spacing 5 years..I thought it was less..oh well..

oddities just kinda clear my head and get an explanation is all

	03-09-2004 04:59									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

and last but not least, as stated earlier, the city has a full contingent of troops..they were no where to be found, all of the sudeen the pick pink01 to attack when other bigger cities were available..no troops around..~POOF~ they appeared

strange is all

	03-09-2004 05:00									#27
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Your games screwed up.


I am master of the obvious

	03-09-2004 05:22									#28
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yes..and I have another since you are so eloquently putting it:

In game the one above:

no units were there last turn now they have 9 stacks all over..u cannot see them but when you try to move you mysteriously runinto them..

PLUS in many case a stacks of 2 is seen but when you attack it is a 9 stack

I have seen more mickey mouse $h!t in PBEM than I have seen in MP...

Now..I am not accusing but there has to be an explanation?

I trust most here..but when oddities amazingly appear..I request an answer..

Now, I am not callling anyone a cheat. I am above and beyond that


What I do ask is the community to expalin what is happening and why?

If a person knows what is the casue then they must know the why? perhaps even how to clear it up?

Ok...please tell me what is happening

Thanks

Bruce Cronkite

	03-09-2004 07:57									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Ok..here is another..and this is the third time in this game in last three turns it has happened..not before in the previous 132 turns...of this game..

notice my two Calvary and in the dark area is a lawyer and a musketeer from Pink)

This as mentioned is the third time i could not see the units..I had to actually go to them to see them..

another thing that is odd..my city isin one tile and I was parked in tile beside that tile and guess what in the game both are in the tile between my city..i didnt think a unit like a musketeer could go between a unit of mine and my city..maybe I am wrong..anyway couldnt see them..until i moved my Calvary..

odd to me at least..

Attachment: epw2 game-9-2-04.jpg
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	03-09-2004 07:59									#30
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Is that our game?