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Boco
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who was once King for a week.
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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What kind of beer?  I found a bottle of McEwan's that's tasting pretty good.  Btw, did you read that beer can cause gout?
Fairline you must have timed this so that the Europeans without access to cheap ToT are offline. 
ToT oozes with potential, but reaching that potential does require a lot of effort. In fact without all the utilities, tips, and art posted on the forums, it'd be pretty daunting to make a ToT scen. So lotsa thanks to Tech, William Keenan, Merc ("read the d**n readme before posting!"), Gothmog, that ManU diehard, Wobbegonefish, and the rest of you. Not to mention the event discussions of Yoshi and Wobbegonefish over at CivFan.
quote:
Ahh, another convert! |
Occasionally we listen to the voice from the wilderness. 
Curt since you're moving on Bitter Froth, I 'spose I gotta post the updated EA soon. Despite not reading any of the help files, Palaiologos did uncover a significant bug undocumented feature.
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Catfish
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Wollongong, Australia
Aug 2000
time: 14:17
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I have copies of FW and ToT. I would've stopped at FW, if not for a certain veteran scenario designer who insisted that I get a copy of ToT – he actually mailed me the CD-ROM in early 2000! My first impressions of the game were that the graphics were horrendous – hated the blurry units, the dark terrain, background and menu tiles, and new city management screen. On closer inspection, I realised that ToT was clearly a superior scenario design platform to earlier versions and I replaced many of the graphics with custom ones. I now actually prefer the ToT city interface. Artwork aside, my main gripes with game were the aggressive diplomacy model (new to me, as I didn't have a copy of MGE) and the new health bar and shield (key). At the time, I was also dumbfounded that the product pricing, for what was in my view essentially a mod-pack, was equal to that of a full game (but that's no longer an issue).
quote:
Originally posted by our_man
I wouldn't design scenarios for it myself though. It doesn't seem as user friendly as MGE and it's complexity would require far more work investment. |
Sure, it lacks the game editors, but who uses them? They're so buggy they should be afforded all the attention of a steaming turd. The fact that you can perform a straight conversion of a FW or MGE scenario to the ToT format using Angelo Scotto's CivConverter is proof that a ToT scenario doesn't require more work – the options are just there if you want them.
Since humans are visual creatures, we like nice graphics (as confirmed by the general obsession with graphics in these forums). So even if you decide to disregard all of ToT's rules and events options, what it does do is enable you to give your scenario a 16-bit overhaul. If you don't make graphics, replace them with ones from the Internet. Not a major time investment and kinda fun for some people.
quote:
Originally posted by AGRICOLA
An entertainingly frothy thread that unfortunately seems somewhat academic. |
I don't exactly see bucket loads of people in the general Civ2 forums, here or at CFC. What's more, most of those belong to a small group of regulars. As an outsider looking in, I might be forgiven for believing that the writing is on the wall for all versions of Civ2. However, there are still new people and casual gamers (mostly at CFC) who pick up various versions of the product in bargain bins. Unfortunately the ones with ToT come to the forums, can't find a multiplayer community, can't find mod-packs or scenarios and probably end up moving on to another game. Is it possible that if the Civ2 design community gave the engine a fair shot, you might attract or retain more newcomers? What happens if your Civ2 source code petition is successful and you end up with ToT? Most new games these days have 32-bit graphics. Do you honestly think (with us being the visual creatures we are) that you are going to attract substantial numbers of new people to an 8-bit game? Is the choice still academic?
As for my involvement with Civ2, it's something I dabble in now and then. Regardless of the audience size, I would never work with MGE – I'm pissed off enough by ToT's limitations, I don't want something worse. I'd work with another game engine completely before I did that. Civ3's lack of events scripting means that it's not an option.
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GoPostal
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Looking at the poll, maybe I should get ToT
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Catfish
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Wollongong, Australia
Aug 2000
time: 14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain
Edit: Oh yeah, and why can't I get the menus in place like in MGE, I'm used to that now. It's not a big problem though.. |
Are you talking about the positions of the minimap and status bar? If so, use View menu -> Map Layout. It toggles between the top and RHS.
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Exile
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of the Benighted Realms
Sep 2000
time: 23:17
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I have MGE. That is the engine that I use and that won't change.
Why?
I KNOW MGE. Yes, it's a hairy, cantankerous beast, but it is the beast I KNOW. I have learned its varied tricks and wayward ways, and I KNOW what to expect and what to avoid.
The purpose here, AFAIAC, is to create a GOOD simulation. "Good" means; Playable and fun, balanced with historical accuracy and period graphics. In pursuit of that goal, I use the monster with which I am familiar, and that I can herd in the direction I want it to go.
Yes, it might be fun to have a few more unit slots, a few more events, and some other elements that TOT addressed, but I am not going to go through another learning process (it took years! lol) with a game that is, unhappily like this one, going to go the way of the dodo sooner or later. If I had the perverse urge to move my efforts to another program, I'd sure choose one that was more up-to-date than either TOT or MGE. I'd find some other empire-builder that was more contemporary, in terms of power and ability.
Luckily for me, and possibly for others, I haven't found one yet. If and when a game comes along that DOES have the creative latitude of MGE/TOT/Civ2-in-general, I'm gone.
Increasingly, I get the distinct, sinking feeling that my favorite platform for creative game-making is slowly going obsolete. I'll hang on for as long as there are people playing and enjoying the scenarios I create, though. And it does surprise me how many people are still enthusiastic about scenarios. But we are a small group, folks, and many illustrious names have moved on to other programs.
That said, let me state quite clearly; I don't make these for anyone else. I create these scenarios for myself. Perhaps that's a selfish admission, but it's honest. If others like them, good. I'll continue to put the finished scenarios in places where others can retreive them and play them, but first and foremost, these things are a labour of love (or maybe just compulsion, lol) to satisfy no one but myself. So the issue of who may or may not be playing scenarios and which platform they use is, to me, irrelevant. As stated, there are converters out there. If one has the desire to use one, so be it. I don't.
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Panda
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Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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I must confess that since converting my mod-pack to TOT all my new games have been played using that. However my prefered format is still FW and that's the way I'll stay.
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Catfish
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Wollongong, Australia
Aug 2000
time: 14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
Here's what I can't recall: "3)Open a dosprompt". I have XP installed on my computer - no clue how to do this. |
OK, three ways…
Assume I've extracted CivConverter into c:\unzipped\civconverter\ and the scenario into c:\unzipped\scenario\
Method 1:
a) Start Menu -> Programs -> Accessories -> Command Prompt
b) To change directory: cd c:\unzipped\civconverter
c) To convert: civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn
Method 2:
a) Start Menu -> Run… (or Windows key + R)
b) To convert: c:\unzipped\civconverter\civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn
Method 3:
a) Get Microsoft's PowerToys for Windows XP. It contains various unofficial enhancements for XP, one of which adds the Command Prompt to the menu when you right-click a directory (folder). The prompt will automatically start in that directory.
b) Right-click the c:\unzipped\civconverter folder.
c) Select Open Command Window Here.
d) To convert: civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn
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GoPostal
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Is ToT an expansion pack, like FW, or a full game? Also, is it true it uses animations, because the lack thereof is what makes civ2 so editable.
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16-08-2004 03:07
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