20-08-2004 00:06									#1
	Victory Conditions Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

What does everyone think should be the victory conditions for CIV? And try to be creative. Saying "The Civ 3 diplo victory sucks, it should be better in CIV" doesn't do anyone much good.

	20-08-2004 00:17									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well any kind of voting for the president of the world would surely be done electronically.. So there must be SOMEONE with enough scientific knowledge to rig it, or at least make sure someone else doesn't win .

I've personally never really liked the domination victory type because it isn't an ending of any sort--it's an implied ending. I'd be very happy if there was "absorption" so to make conquest a more bearable alternative (that is, conquer the world without having to use troops on every single city; through some other means, yet still using military might, such as taking over 70% of a given nation's population). Some people still love their domination so I wouldn't take that away from them.

Well, I'm anxious to see what others can come up with.

	20-08-2004 00:48									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The problem is that in a historical context, there is no victory. So however you slice it, all victory conditions are arbitrary - you draw a line at a certain point (be it land, population, # of allies, economic productivity, # of techs researched, the number of "spaceship parts" completed etc.) and that's how you declare "victory."

With that being the case, what do you think would make a good "victory condition" when historically, no one was, or ever will be "victorious" (unless you count UN absorbtion of the world ).

	20-08-2004 02:17									#4
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I think that the biggest possibility for a new victory condition is diplomatic. The UN was a poor implimentation in Civ 3, and there's many ways that it could have been done better.

In my proposal, each civ should have different categories of relations with each other civ. So, for example, each civ would have "trade relations" (how much they trade techs and resources), "ideological similarity" (in case they have the same religion or government, for example), and "political cooperation" (alliances, ROP agreements, etc.). Each of these categories increases or decreases based upon deals between the two civs. If you have a military alliance, your political cooperation value will be higher.

The value of each category between all civs is summed up - so you would add up the "trade relations" value between Civs A and B and A and C in order to get Civ A's "total trade relations value." In order to achieve victory, each category would have to pass a certain amount as well as a totaling of all values for that civ (the threshold would be determined by how many civs were in the game). So if there were those 3 civs in the game, you would need a value of, say, 20 in each category as well as a total of 80 (20+20+20 + one more 20 in order to give each civ some leeway in what it concentrates in). So once you reached 20 points in each category and a total of 80, you would win the game. The total amount of points that each civ has in each category should be available to all civs (perhaps it would require an embassy), so you could determine how close each civ was to winning through diplomacy. If they're too close for comfort, you can act (attack them, cut off trading, etc.).

	20-08-2004 04:03									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If they're too close for comfort, you can act (attack them, cut off trading, etc.).

This guy is being really nice and is trading resources with us all and is sharing his maps with us and is swapping technologies. He's even lending military support to us all. He's too nice, lets kill him.

	20-08-2004 05:19									#6
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It's not so much that he's helping you is that he's helping everyone - the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

	20-08-2004 18:57									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

1. Mars base:

The whole idea of an interstellar spacecraft built on 2000 technology carrying thousands is absurd. Why not make a simple change to setting up a mars base (or colony for the grandiose?) also, in the path to this victory space improvements like satelites (ala SMAC) should be included, like before you can build the "Space station" minor wonder, you have to have X satelites in orbit.

2. One world Government:

Make the UN victory more significant: the aim would be to create a one world governemt, with you at the lead. In order to do this you must: 1. Be a leading power (first or second in the power rankings) 2. Less than half the civs can be involved in any war at the times(hard to form one world government for a world at war) 3. Be allied to a quarter of all civs, so forth and so on. IN essence, you must have built up over time a diplomatic base of victory.

3. Dominion:

2/3 of all population or 2/3 of all economic activity. NOT 2/3 of all territory.

4. World conquest. self explanitory.

	20-08-2004 20:02									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think that the UN should function more like the Planetary Council in SMAC--it would be able to convene and elect a chairman and vote on various actions.

Possible actions to vote on:

Elect Chairman: chairman gets spy in all civs, no fog of war in other civs' territory, double votes.

Global Trade Organization: +1 commerce all cities, all civs

Peacekeeping act: All members who vote "yes" ally against target nation--over 50% of members must support to pass

Embargo nation: All members embargo target nation

Suspend member: target nation loses voting privileges for next four votes

Defense pact: All signatories get +2 free supported units per city but may not declare war upon each other without first withdrawing from the pact in a UN meeting

	20-08-2004 22:53									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

UN is so late in the tree, it would be a waste of time placing too many complex options for it.

I'd sugest that instead of one vote per civ, that it be based on population with 3/4ths required like SMAC.

I think Dominatation should remain 66% of the world's pop + 66% of the land area.

Keep the space ship as the science victory.

Keep the culture victory option.

Add an option to win via cash like SMAC's corner the energy market.

	21-08-2004 08:21									#10
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Dont forget about culture.

I like the concept of this in some shape or fashion and would like to keep some sort of culture victory.

I even won a game or two culturally when Civ 3 first came out.

	21-08-2004 18:35									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I wouldn't mind the entire tech tree being an age longer, and the space race being put into the next age. It seems to come too soon for my liking. I would propose that the research costs for the next age are much higher than previous giving that everyone has the ability to research ridiculously fast at this point. That would allow ample time for a much more functional UN. Also it would allow for minor space combat a la Alpha Centauri. The cure for cancer could be pushed back significantly and there are plenty of other wonders/techs/improvements that can be done in the future which we already know about now (magnetic acceleration, high energy storage / discharge, etc).

	22-08-2004 01:47									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

How about an economic victory of some sort?

	22-08-2004 15:54									#13
	Support Apolyton

The economic victory might work in a similar manner to the culture victory. For example, if your total commerce production plus transfers from other civs/bonuses such as Wall Street, etc. exceeds a certain number AND is twice as great as your highest competitor, and you maintain this state for enough consecutive turns, then you can gain economic dominance.