20-08-2004 23:10									#1
	Give all techs to our allies? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Our current policy is to give techs to our allies (CFC and CGN) as soon as GWT gets them. The reason we have been doing this is to keep research costs for GWT and GCA as high as possible. We made a recent exception for CFC, to allow them to travel across the ocean.

Our allies, however, are somewhat unhappy about this. They have no idea when they're getting techs, or if they're still getting techs. Morale is very low.

GWT and GCA appear to be researching techs on a 40 turn basis, or some sort of very slow progression. As such, the cost of the techs really isn't important.

Should we continue to hold to this policy, or should we simply gift our tech to allies after we discover it?

Please discuss.


Tech update as of 750ad
We have: Mono, Feud, Eng, Chiv, Theo, Edu, Inven, Gun, Astro, Nav, and will have Music Theory next turn. (We also have Monarchy)

GWT and GCA do not have: Education, Astro, Nav. They may have Chem, Metal, Mil Trad., techs we do not possess. We could use some intel analysis on this .. when did they get Gunpowder?

CFC has all techs except Monarchy. We gave them Education, Astro, and Navigation to enable them to also perform their assault.

CGN does not have Education, etc. (and Monarchy).

--Togas

	20-08-2004 23:43									#2
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Wait.

With the explanation that we are trying to make it as costly as possible for GWT/GCA. If CFC feels they need a certain ech, then let them explain why. We'd be happy to hear them out.

What I think this is really about is that CFC feels it CAN do adequate research on their own. CFC wants to be more of a part of this game. Right now they just gift us gold each turn. I'm not even sure the dumba$$es are doing 40 turn research on anything (I'd bet they are not).

So, do we want to let them feel more a part of the game/alliance? Or do we tell the to shut the hell up and play it our way?

I say we act very nice towards them and explain our past and current behavior and what our motives are. Hopefully they'll see the wisdom behind it. If they resist and insist upon being given the techs, then we do.

	21-08-2004 00:39									#3
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Surely CFC can understand that unless they have a demonstrable need for a tech, we should withhold it to keep GWT's research costs up?

The logic is irrefutable. I guess it comes down to trust, though. If they don't have total trust in us (likely), then they are bound to start grumbling that all we're doing is taking their money and planning on screwing them over.

As such, I think we need to brainstorm a bit for ways of showing our goodwill/good faith that DO NOT include giving them techs that will help GWT/GCA's research efforts.

As for CGN, they shouldn't need any reassuring, for two reasons:

1) We helped them a bunch during their collapse, and saved them from destructon; and
2) In order for us to get their free industrial tech, we will have to give them all the required medieval techs they don't already have.

So it's really all about CFC. I think more active diplo would help smooth things over. I think they need reassurance and a reminder of why we're holding back.

-Arrian

edit:

quote: GWT and GCA appear to be researching techs on a 40 turn basis, or some sort of very slow progression. As such, the cost of the techs really isn't important.

I really wouldn't count on that continuing, now that CGN is defeated and peace will soon be signed. Once the WW vanishes, I see no reason at all that GWT will not fire up their research.

	21-08-2004 01:38									#4
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I agree with Arrian.

GWT is going to be left in the dust if they keep doing 40-turn techs. They'll be getting a tech every 20 turns (assuming they and GCA both have different branches available) while we get a tech every 5 or 4 turns for the rest of the MA (plus another tech, albeit usually fairly useless, every 40 turns from CFC). They're going to have to crank up the research if they don't want to be getting Infantry for the first time when we're getting Marines and Tanks. And we shouldn't make it any easier for them when we have to.

If CFC needs a tech, like they needed the Edu-Asro-Nav route, will need Banking eventually, and will eventually need all era-required techs, then definitely give it to them. But if there's a tech they don't need, don't give it to them until they do, in case GWT tries to actually research it.

	21-08-2004 04:38									#5
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Easy decision

Wait

	21-08-2004 05:35									#6
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Now that GWT has a continent to themselves, I doubt they continue 40 turn research as it would obviously be very foolish for them to do so.


So my vote on the issue is to open a constructive dialog with our allies and explain our reservations, but offer to share any tech they feel they need (and can explain why they need...but don't put it so bluntly).


I'm not so certain that sharing techs in some cases wouldn't actually increase our alliance's overall tech lead though, especially if we share infrastructure techs (banking, education, monotheism, etc) with them that they intend to use to enhance their own gpt or research one.

	21-08-2004 05:53									#7
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Yes, I expect that GWT will finish researching something soon. My bet is on Education, so that eventually they can A) set up deep-water sentries and B) come after us.

	21-08-2004 22:38									#8
	Got spare money?

Option #2, unless our allies need the tech in order to be able to assist us in battle or something.

Aidun

	21-08-2004 23:20									#9
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Agreed with Aidun on option #4. If a tech can be useful to an ally, gift it regardless of whether GWT has researched it. But if they don't need it, don't gift it till GWT has it.

	23-08-2004 09:04									#10
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Guys CGN basically asked the question.

Although the CFC discussion was good

	24-08-2004 03:47									#11
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Abstain, but make sure that any wonders aill be ours taht we want prior to gifting anything.

	24-08-2004 12:22									#12
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Agree with Aidun!

	24-08-2004 21:35									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Looking at the list, maybe CGN really just wants Education?

In that case, do we think that they would put the Universitys to better use than GWT / GCA?

	25-08-2004 02:21									#14
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I think the intent of this thread is pretty clear from the team, in the next couple of days, I will try to craft and response and post it here first for chop.

Then Ill post it at the UN.

	25-08-2004 02:31									#15
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I think the priority is not just after our enemies research them but when our allies NEED them. If CFC is in need of building universities then we have no reason why not to give them the techs.

	25-08-2004 03:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I think the priority is not just after our enemies research them but when our allies NEED them. If CFC is in need of building universities then we have no reason why not to give them the techs.

Agreed.

For that specific example, though, I think Banks are their next big project. While we may be catching up with MA research during our GA and doing 4-turn techs, we'll need all the gold they can give to do deficit research during the Ind.