21-08-2004 23:44									#1
	A List of CIV Units Suffering from ads?

quote: CTP 2 Abolitionist Aircraft Carrier CVN Archer Artillery German Half Track Battleship Bomber B-52 Cannon 1600s Caravan Cargo Helicopter Carrack Ship Catapult Cavalry Cleric Coracle Ship Corporate Branch Crawler Ship Cruise Missile Cyber Ninja Destroyer Diplomat Dreadnaught Ship Modern Eco Ranger Eco Terrorist Empathic Diplomat Fascist Fighter P-38 Fire Trireme Ship Freight Transport Fusion Tank Hoplite Hover Infantry Infantryman 1800s Infector Interceptor F-15 Ironclad Knight Kraken Ship Lawyer Leviathan Tank Longship Machine Gunner Marine Mobile SAM Morey Striker Ship Mounted Archer Nuclear Submarine SSN 688 Nuke Missile Paratrooper Plasma Destroyer Pikeman PT Boat Samural Star Cruiser Stealth Bomber B-2 Scout Submarine Sea Engineer Settler Ship of the Line Slaver Space Plane Spy Spy Plane Stealth Bomber B-2 Stealth Fighter F-117 Submarine SS 500 Tank M-1 Televangelist Troop Ship Urban Planner War Walker Warrior CTP 1 Abolitionist Aircraft Carrier CVN Archer Artillery Big Gun Battleship Bomber B-52 Cannon 1700s Caravan Cargo Pod Space Cavalry Cleric Cororate Branch Crawler Ship Cyber Ninja Destroyer Diplomat Eco Ranger Eco Terrorist Fascist Fighter P-38 Fire Trireme Ship Fusion Tank Infector Interceptor F-15 Phantom Space Fighter Knight Legion Lawyer Leviathan Tank Longship Machine Gunner Marine Mobile SAM Musketeer Mounted Archer Phalanx Nuke Missile Paratrooper Plasma Destroyer Pikeman Plasmatica Trooper Samural Sea Engineer Settler Ship of the Line Slaver Space Plane Space Bomber Space Engineer Space Fighter Spy Spy Plane Stealth Submarine Storm Marine Submarine SSN 688 Subneural Ad Swarm Trooper Tank M-1 Televangelist Trireme Troop Ship War Walker Warrior Civ 3 AEGIS Cruiser Ancient Cavalry Archer Artillery 105 MM Battleship Bomber B-17 Cannon Civil War Caravel Ship CVN Catapult Cavalry Chariot Cruise Missile Cruiser Crusader Man Curragh Ship Destroyer Fighter Spitfire Flak Gun Frigate Ship Galleon Ship Gally Ship Guerilla Helicopter CH-47 Horseman ICBM Infantry WWI Ironclad Jet Fighter Mig-29 Knight Longbowman Marine Mech Infantry Medieval Infantry Mobile SAM Modern SAM Modern Armor M-1 Modern Paratrooper Musketeer Nuclear Submarine Paratrooper Pikeman Privateers Ship Radar Artillery Rifleman 1900s Scout Man Settler Spearman Stealth Bomber B-2 Submarine SS-500 Swordsman Tactical Nuke Tank M-4 TOW Infantry Transport LCM-6 Trebuchet Warrior Worker Civ 2 AEGIS Cruiser Alpine Troops Archer Armore Artillery Cannon Caravel Ship CV WWII Catapult Cavalry Chariot Cruise Missile Cruiser Crusader w/Horse Destroyer Diplomat Dragoons Elephant Engineer Explorer Fanatics Fighter T-6 Texan Freight Frigate Gallon Helicopter Attack Horseman Howitzer Ironclad Knight Legion Marine Mechanized HUMVEE Musketeer Nuclear Missile Paratrooper Partisans Phalax Pikeman Rifleman 1900s Settler Spy Stealth Bomber B-2 Stealth Fighter F-22 Submarine SSN-637 Transport LST Modern Trireme Warriors Civ Armor Artillery Battleship Bomber B-52 Cannon Caravan Carrier CV Catapult Cavalry Chariot Cruiser Diplomat Fighter F-15 Frigate Ironclad Knight Legion Mech Inf M-113 Militia Musketeers Nuclear Missile Phalanx Rifleman Modern Sail Ship Settler Submarine SSN 637 Transport APA-215 (my ship) Trireme

Here are all the units that are being used in Civ games. Which ones would you like to keep and which ones could go away.

	22-08-2004 00:21									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Unit workshop!

	22-08-2004 02:44									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Die Units, Die!

Use Armies only! This game is supposed to be strategic damnit!

	22-08-2004 02:56									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Isn't there a { list } thread for this already?

	22-08-2004 05:00									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by lajzar Isn't there a { list } thread for this already?

No. The other two list are more on what a unit should do but not a list of unit that currently being used.

	22-08-2004 05:05									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Joseph No. The other two list are more on what a unit should do but not a list of unit that currently being used.

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...516#post3150516

I'll cheerfully admit that I didn't consult any of the existing game files via direct eyeball contact when that post was made, but I'm not aware of any obvious gaps. If you are, that is the totally officially thread on which to make them

However, I do think it is more useful for the developers to find the roles for the units first, rather than just come up with a laundry list of unit names. That's why the linked post above is categorised.

	22-08-2004 05:17									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by lajzar http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...516#post3150516 I'll cheerfully admit that I didn't consult any of the existing game files via direct eyeball contact when that post was made, but I'm not aware of any obvious gaps. If you are, that is the totally officially thread on which to make them However, I do think it is more useful for the developers to find the roles for the units first, rather than just come up with a laundry list of unit names. That's why the linked post above is categorised.

I read your entire thread before I started this one.
What I really want to show is which units are being used in all 5 game, 4 games, 3 etc. You will notice I did not include UU because only one Civ can make them. Also I want to show the type of unit being used, in that most games used the B-2 has the Stealth Bomber, 3 of the games use a B-52 as a bomber etc. Artillery is all over the place, 105mm, 155mm, a Mortar, and a German Half Track.

	22-08-2004 05:32									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I was under the impression that where games use a "artillery", "stealth bomber" etc, they weren't thinking of a specific make and model - I doubt Sid visited the dock where you worked for that transport - but rather they were thinking in terms of generic examples of that class.

generically, all games have a 'phalanx' unit, even though civ3 calls it a spearman and ctp2 calls it a hoplite. All have musketeers, even though civ3 calls it a musketman. They all have something that fills the "early fighter" and "late fighter" roles, even though the specific fighters used in the graphics are different.

I am kind of curious how you worked out makes and models for the civ1 units; those graphics aren't really that detailed.

Anyone can come up with a laundry list; If that was sufficient for the Firaxis dev team, this discussion would be over before it began. I'm interested in what you want in the game; your opinions and conclusions.

[edited for spelling]

Last edited by lajzar on 22-08-2004 at 07:42

	22-08-2004 09:54									#9
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by lajzar I was under the impression that where games use a "artillery", "stealth bomber" etc, they weren't thinking of a specific make and model - I doubt Sid visited the dock where you worked for that transport - but rather they were thinking in terms of generic examples of that class. generically, all games have a 'phalanx' unit, even though civ3 calls it a spearman and ctp2 calls it a hoplite. All have musketeers, even though civ3 calls it a musketman. They all have something that fills the "early fighter" and "late fighter" roles, even though the specific fighters used in the graphics are different. I am kind of curious how you worked out makes and models for the civ1 units; those graphics aren't really that detailed. Anyone can come up with a laundry list; If that was sufficient for the Firaxis dev team, this discussion would be over before it began. I'm interested in what you want in the game; your opinions and conclusions. [edited for spelling]

In Civ 1 you have to look at the Enc. They show them a lot better.
Plus I spend most of my life reading Military books and I have over 3000 (thousand) military models in my Garage. Got to remember, I'm 60 and my Aunt gave me my first model for Christmas when I was 8 or 9.
Here in Napa we used to have 6 Air Force Bases and 2 Naval Air Station within 150 miles, and I when to every Air Show. Now with all of the closure, we have only Travis AFB about 26 miles from my house and Beale AFB about 80 miles.
By the sound, I can tell you if it is a C-130, C-5, or a C-141 without seeing the aircraft.

	22-08-2004 23:23									#10
	Suffering from ads?

Slightly off topic here:

The majority of the CTP units were just bizarre.

civ units usually represent a 'group' of people...

and as, lajzar has noted: civ represents abstractions (you don't need M1-Tanks when you can have an Armor)

and as for bizarreness: Lawyer??? Eco-Terrorist ??? Abolitionist ??? Cyber-Ninja ??? WTF ???

	23-08-2004 00:45									#11
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Slightly off topic here: The majority of the CTP units were just bizarre. civ units usually represent a 'group' of people... and as, lajzar has noted: civ represents abstractions (you don't need M1-Tanks when you can have an Armor) and as for bizarreness: Lawyer??? Eco-Terrorist ??? Abolitionist ??? Cyber-Ninja ??? WTF ???

To me units are the game. Yes you tell the computer to discover this advance and you tell the computer to build this City improvement, but after that you build units. It is the Units that defends the city. It is the units that attack the enemy cities. It the Units that discover where the other civs are located. It is the units that build the cities. It is the units that plow the tile around the Cities that it may expand. Its the unit that make the game fun, get it.
Now if I like my Armor unit to be an M-1A2 tank, so be it. But I want my tank to look like a M-1A2 tank.
I love units and the more units that I have to play with the more I like it.

	23-08-2004 04:44									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

From the top.

Name of Civs. Civ 1, Civ 2 & TOT, Civ 3, Civ CTP, & CTP 2.
AEGIS Cruiser. Only Civ 2/3 uses the unit. If Firaxis reads this, could or would you take a picture of the CG-47 or later and put it into your computer so the Cruiser would not look like a Fast Patrol Boat.

Alpine Troops, only Civ 2 uses the unit.

Archer, All 6 civ games uses the unit.

Armor, all 6 games uses the M-1 Abram tank as their unit.

Artillery. With artillery the units in all games are difference. In Civ 1 the unit is a German pkfw 4, in civ 2 it is a Civil War cannon, in Civ 3 it is a 105 mm, in CTP it is a big gun from WW1, & and in CTP 2 it is a German or American half track. Artillery is normally a 105mm, 155 mm, 175 mm to 8" howitzer and now MLRS.
My choice would be 155mm M109A6 Paladin self propelled gun.

Battleship. All of the game uses it.

Bomber. Fighter, & Interceptor. Civ 1 has the B-52, Civ 2 a B-24, Civ 3 a B-17 and both CTP has a B-52.
If Firaxis would consider, what I would like to see is Aircraft broke up into several parts.
Call the Advance what ever and the first plane available would be WW 1 fighter and Bomber. Such as the Spad and or Sopwith Camel for western power, a Fokker D.VII for Germany and Allies. On bomber, Handley Page 0/400 for the West and a Gotha for eastern powers.
Next WW II. A choice of P-38, P-47, P-51, Spitfire, F6F Hellcat, or F4U-3 Corsair for western power, Bf-109, or Fw-190 for Germany and Friends, Mig-3, or Yak-9 for Russian and the A6M2 (Zero) for Japan and friends.
Bomber B-17, B-24, B-29 or Lancaster for western powers, He-111 or He-177 for Germany, G4M (Betty) for Japan, and the Tu-2 for Russian.

Korea, A F-86 for American and friends and a MIG-15 for Russian and friends.

Vietnam, a F-105 or F-4 with B-52 for American and friends, and MIG-17 or MIG-21, & Tu-22 for Russian and Friends.
Today the F-22 is entering service and should be the modern Fighter, with the B-1 as a bomber.
Stealth Bomber and Fighter should remain F-117 and B-2.
Russian fighter should be MIG-29 or Su-27 family and Tu-160 for the bomber.
Also from the period of 1914 to 1973 could slow the game down, in that each turn equal 6 months. For the world War 1 time, you would have 8 turns, for WW II time, you would have 12 turns, for Korea, you would have 6 turns and for Vietnam, you would have 16 turns.
Enough for this page.

	23-08-2004 10:25									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Slightly off topic here: The majority of the CTP units were just bizarre. civ units usually represent a 'group' of people... and as, lajzar has noted: civ represents abstractions (you don't need M1-Tanks when you can have an Armor) and as for bizarreness: Lawyer??? Eco-Terrorist ??? Abolitionist ??? Cyber-Ninja ??? WTF ???

Just using the "group" units make sense. Those "single" units can be replaced by espionage (or other) missions.