27-08-2004 01:11									#31
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 The case for a colony is so rare as to be dismissed. That worker is more valuable in the long run.

Bingo. You can either burn a worker for a temporary benefit, or create a settler and burn it for the resource and a permanent benefit. In all but a few rare cases, it's a no-brainer.

	27-08-2004 01:37									#32
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Mmmm.... I had one colony on an iron tile and it was very far away from my growing empire. The French sailed across the sea and plunked down a settler next to it, claiming it. The result was that the colony became a worker once again. Too bad this doesn't happen whenever my borders reach a colony.

	27-08-2004 09:49									#33
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The purpose of the posting about colonies were to find out whether if once borders reach a colony site and it disappeared, is the tile considered as roaded even although if I didn't road it before plunking down that colony.

One annoying feature for me is whenever someone asks to speak with me and I'm like 'Oh sure, bring them on in,' and they want to negiotate - there doesn't seem to be a way to look at the map or consult with advisors. I hope I'm mistaken? I cannot be arsed to remember every single city and their location in other nations also I don't often remember their color. Such as this time Carthage called upon me and asked for an alliance against Inca. I couldn't recall Inca's color and I was planning to declare war on some purple-colored civ. I turn down the offer and turned out that the purple civ was Inca after all! .

I also wonder if I'm talking with someone and I decide just to exit without reaching an agreement, does that affect our relationship? Or it isn't that big deal, I could exit and check my facts then call them up to take them up on their offer?

	27-08-2004 10:49									#34
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All I can tell you is you will always have ocassions where you do not know the data that you need to to make an informed decision of some deal.

IOW, you will not be able to exit the window and check around. You will eventually recall most of the stuff needed. When in doubt, do not make alliances or MP or RoP.

If you want you can take a screen shot and save it on your desk top. Then you could drop out of civ to look at it for reference to which civ is what color.

If you exit with out making a deal on an offer it will hurt your relations a bit. Even if you make it deal it could still hurt you a bit, if you forced them to alter the offer.

In the end, I don't care as I will be their enemy soon anyway.

	28-08-2004 04:04									#35
	Re: re: Ctrl G not working Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by petermarkab Ctrl G doesn't work if CAPSLOCK is on. Maybe you turned it on to speed up visible AI troop movement and forgot about it?

nAH, i'M TALKING RUBBISH.

the capslock this is wrong, dunno where i got that from!

	29-08-2004 01:26									#36
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Nope, no bad affects if you propose a counteroffer but don't actually sign anything.

It's much more advangetous to wait for any trade until your own turn unless one of the two applies:

1. It's time to renew a luxary deal and your positive you rather keep it than lose it for a turn.

2. It's a nothing for nothing deal. (If you both already have each others world map, then trading world map for world map.)

	29-08-2004 02:38									#37
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Sometimes you can buy workers from the AI, when it wants to talk to you in its turn. When it is your turn again, the workers may not be available anymore.

	29-08-2004 02:50									#38
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I've never noticed that before Modo....but then again, I never looked for the option either.

	29-08-2004 03:16									#39
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I didn't say it happens often, did I?

And yes I do check the deals that come in between my turns. Basically they come after some (but not all) AI players act, which can give you an advantege (an additional diplomacy round). Or a disadvantage, if you are not careful with them. This is especially important on large and huge maps with complicated diplomacy.

	29-08-2004 04:38									#40
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Yes if you can catch workers in the capitol intransit, you can buy them. It is really of little import after the ancient age, but if you doit in the first 50 turns, it will hurt them.

	30-08-2004 17:45									#41
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Likewise, you can sell your workers if you happen to have any in your capital during negotiations. Not really a smart thing to do and I think it costs you in the AI attitude department.

	30-08-2004 20:19									#42
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Selling my workers to an AI hurts our relations?

I recall reading somewhere in the manual (which is filled with lies I know) that if you have captured workers and sell them back to their civ, it'd help relations to improve. If that's true, I wonder what will happen if I was to sell a captured worker to some other civ... sort like a slave trade

	30-08-2004 21:26									#43
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Yup, if workers are adviable during AI's turn, buy them then if you have sufficent cash. This is a good reason to keep 120 gold in reserve.

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Sometimes you can buy workers from the AI, when it wants to talk to you in its turn. When it is your turn again, the workers may not be available anymore.

	30-08-2004 21:28									#44
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You can always put these workers to work either inside your cities, improving the terraign or in the modern era converting them to radar towers.

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes if you can catch workers in the capitol intransit, you can buy them. It is really of little import after the ancient age, but if you doit in the first 50 turns, it will hurt them.

	31-08-2004 01:36									#45
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I did not say not to buy them, only that it matters little. By the time you have radar tower, the game should have been over, unless you are playing domination or conquest.

Surely you do not think it matters to the out come of the game if you buy a worker in 1946AD? In fact I would suggest that you are better off to not give them 120 gold, but make a worker if you feel you need one.

I have all the workers I want after rails anyway. Also I do not make radar towers or any other worker derived structures. If I need them, I have done something wrong.

	31-08-2004 04:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Selling my workers to an AI hurts our relations? I recall reading somewhere in the manual (which is filled with lies I know) that if you have captured workers and sell them back to their civ, it'd help relations to improve. If that's true, I wonder what will happen if I was to sell a captured worker to some other civ... sort like a slave trade

Basically, just HAVING slaves of any AI civs hurts the relationship... so getting rid of them via either joining them, selling them back, or YES , gifting them to another civ, will help. To be honest, though, I don't pay too much attention to it... if I have like one or two slaves from a specific AI civ, and I want something special from them, than maybe then I'll address it. That's about it though.

	31-08-2004 04:51									#47
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Also I do not make radar towers or any other worker derived structures. If I need them, I have done something wrong.

Why do you say that, v? Outposts have value, in special applications, certainly. And I find Radar Towers to be, well, not indispensable, but of such value that it is sorta silly not to avail oneself... that's like saying you will not build Walls for a chokepoint city, just 'cause you don't like Walls.

	31-08-2004 05:05									#48
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I've found the rare use for an outpost, but will go nuts building airfields once I get flight. I wouldn't say I need them, since they're in the middle of dozens or hundreds of empty cities that would serve just as well as bases. I just prefer them, and have the spare workers. I don't, however, think I've ever built a radar tower.

	31-08-2004 05:17									#49
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Radar towers are part of my standard offensive tactics in the late game... assuming they are available, why the heck would anyone do without? I mean, on defense, sure, back upt your chokepoints and landings and whatnot, but when you've got dozens or hundreds of excess Workers, why NOT plant them just before an attack, or just after capturing a key position?

I've been doing this as a matter of course for a looong time.

	31-08-2004 05:47									#50
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I guess I've just never played with them enough to answer the question of whether they help or not when offensive forces attack in enemy territory, but within the RT's range. I'm sure they do and agree with your logic of "why not?", but just haven't done it.

The more I think about it, it seems AI city placement would make the chance for it to be useful fairly rare after that first turn or two when all the border cities fall. It does make good sense for the opening stages, though. I tend to rely heavily on air power and, where possible, artillery/RA at that point in the game to achieve my unit on unit advantage (not to say it's an either/or proposition), so I guess my results have always been good enough to keep me from thinking about it.

	31-08-2004 05:51									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Why do you say that, v? Outposts have value, in special applications, certainly. And I find Radar Towers to be, well, not indispensable, but of such value that it is sorta silly not to avail oneself... that's like saying you will not build Walls for a chokepoint city, just 'cause you don't like Walls.

	31-08-2004 06:00									#52
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No dice, v. I agree there are better things to research... trade for it then. And going back to meta-game thoughts (not discussed much lately), that is what client states are for!

	31-08-2004 06:00									#53
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T it is because they are an optional tech that I won't have, unless I get it in a trade.

I will hopefully have rails up by then and be able to pound any invaders, As you know the AI does not invade worth a crap, even at Sid.

I have been at war with all civs in my game and though they have at least 500 troops and some civs have twice that, they send no more than 5 fleets at any one time. Those do not come in a coordinated manor, so I can deal with them at my lesiure.

Zoom artie over if they land, bomb them on the way in, you name it.

The times, I could stand to have towers is when I invade. I can't get one up then, until I no longer need one.

As to outpost, when they are available, I cannot spare workers for them.

Anyway the question was on buying workers late in the game and I still say it is immaterial. Buy them if you like, I have not tested it, but I would bet the gold is more usefult to the AI than the worker anyway.

Maybe at emperor or lower, the AI does not need gold, but at Sid it is alway broke and if they get money from me, it goes to support or upgrade troops. This I do not need.

	31-08-2004 06:06									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus No dice, v. I agree there are better things to research... trade for it then. And going back to meta-game thoughts (not discussed much lately), that is what client states are for!

You won't have any client state at Sid. They have no money and you cannot scare them.

I can't trade for tech after industrial age, even if I have one they don't, they want more than it is worth.

Anyway I am trying to slow the tech pace down, so I do not want techs to be trade or sold. The top dogs do not sell or trade techs around much after late industrial. This is because the lower civs have no cash, nothing to offer.

You can often see a civ without Printing Press while you are building Hoovers. It is all haves and have nots. They all have troops, but only the top ones have tech.

	31-08-2004 08:21									#55
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Well, sure, you have been playing at a very advanced level for a while now, so non-necessary techs get skipped over entirely.

I guess I am saying that if Adv Flight is part of one's game, prolly through trade, then Radar Towers make sense. I agree... in 99% of cases, I would not research Adv Flight to do so, but if I have the chance I will use Radar Towers wherever appropriate.

	31-08-2004 11:36									#56
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Hey maybe I will fire up a few in your honor. I just traded recycling to the Russians for Adv Flight. I figured I would make them (hopefully) spend shields to build some.

They have so many tiles covered with pollution (no gold to support workers), I wonder how they feed those metros with many tiles not workable.

	31-08-2004 18:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 They have so many tiles covered with pollution (no gold to support workers), I wonder how they feed those metros with many tiles not workable.

Simple: they overirrigate from day one in anticipation of the day when their metros have to survive on six tiles apiece.

	31-08-2004 19:56									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus One annoying feature for me is whenever someone asks to speak with me and I'm like 'Oh sure, bring them on in,' and they want to negiotate - there doesn't seem to be a way to look at the map or consult with advisors. I hope I'm mistaken? I cannot be arsed to remember every single city and their location in other nations also I don't often remember their color. Such as this time Carthage called upon me and asked for an alliance against Inca. I couldn't recall Inca's color and I was planning to declare war on some purple-colored civ. I turn down the offer and turned out that the purple civ was Inca after all! .

I'll usually remember what civ is what, but with cities it's not always in my memory, so I often will just cancel negotiations, look, and then reload the turn. Assuming no attacking has happened, it's not like I'm reloading to influence any outcomes. Of course this can only go for SP, but then I've never yet been approached by the AI in a MP game.

	31-08-2004 22:51									#59
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On the why would I have the tech for Radar Towers when going for the space race:

I've moded my own game to make all techs in every era required for advancement, including Advanced Flight, so I wouldn't be entering the modern era before 1850.

	01-09-2004 00:29									#60
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Hi jincnunn, I cannot address modded games. I no reference points, I play straight out of the box, not even a graphics mod.

Well I did play one AU game with the AU mod, but I played it as if the mod did not exist.