25-08-2004 19:50									#31
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Do you feel the same way about revealing clothing, vulgar slogans and logos, and religous apparel?

Yes, I think people should be respectful in the areas you mentionned as well. I just like to think that people can be careful about these things without the need for legislation. I think people can be respectful on their own. I would hope that people would have good manners on their own and if an offensive situation did arise, that it could be resolved amicably. I would hope that legislation would not be required because I don't believe in excessive legislation.

	25-08-2004 19:56									#32
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quote: Some, like California, give women the right to breastfeed "in any location, public or private, except the private home … of another"; the mother may sue if breastfeeding is denied.

If I have yet to see anyone exercising this right for 2 years in Berkeley, clearly this is not the big issue that ya all are making it out to be. There don't seem to be many exhibitionists when it comes to this.

	25-08-2004 20:00									#33
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quote: long as the person is attractive

No, I didn't.

I see no reason why having the toilets and urinals in the resturant can't be sanitary. They are supposed to keep everything clean anyways. Perhaps this will be incentive to finally have clean public johns. If your premise is that it is an unavoidable natural funtion that must be prformed, then they can not be seperated. Unless that seperation is simple you don't want to see my white ass of smell my ****, which is a vanity decision similar to me not wanting to see your maggot fed.

	25-08-2004 20:02									#34
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The Diplomat:
It appears you believe in Common Sense. But common sense is something not universally shared in our modern societies. What appears as something obviously polite to you, may appear as something superfluous / useless / stupid to somebody else. "Common Sense" is an unsaid rule; and when there are so many people, it's better when rules are said.

Among examples: it's not impolite in China to chew with an open mouth, or speak while eating. It's very impolite in Arabic countries to give a thumbs up. And it's "common sense" there, just as strongly as it isn't in the west.

These differences are not only cultural, but can be individual as well. For example, I personally see no moral problem with sleeping with other women than my partner. My gf sees a HUGE moral problem with it (she's definitely not the kind of having open relationships, while I am). We cleared it out right at the beginning, and fidelity is a golden rule in our couple. I'm glad it is not an untold one

	25-08-2004 20:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos No, I didn't. I see no reason why having the toilets and urinals in the resturant can't be sanitary. They are supposed to keep everything clean anyways. Perhaps this will be incentive to finally have clean public johns. If your premise is that it is an unavoidable natural funtion that must be prformed, then they can not be seperated. Unless that seperation is simple you don't want to see my white ass of smell my ****, which is a vanity decision similar to me not wanting to see your maggot fed.

You don't see why shiting at the dinner table is unsanitary? That's lovely.

	25-08-2004 20:13									#36
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I do of course, find it offensive and disgusting. Me finding it unsanitary and it actually having the ability to spread disease is not the same. It is totally possible to make such a combined sceme scientifically sanitary as far as the stread of desease, which is the only practical reason to seperate it from everything else. The rest is your vanity in finding it unsanitary, just like me using vanity to say public breast feeding is offensive.

I really don't care all that much, would rather not see it though. I, like has been said, would find it to be common sence and polite to do it privately anyways. Why we can't rely on this is above.

	25-08-2004 21:41									#37
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France is a shining example here. In no other country I have seen so many pregnant women in public. In all other countries women seem to hide, being pregnant is not considered to be something positive.
This is clearly wrong, but governments do nothing about it. All they do is say: "make more children". Also I heard there is a nice system about taking care of babies in France. I think they are on the right track. Babies are something positive, pregnant women are something positive and if we don't think that way, we act against ourselves.

	25-08-2004 21:50									#38
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Toplessness (even ugly toplessness (even male toplessness)) is good.

Pregnancy is blech.

	25-08-2004 21:52									#39
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Toplessness (even ugly toplessness (even male toplessness)) is good.

I am not sure about that. As someone who experienced a lot of female toplessness on French beaches, I can testify that not all toplessness is good. Some people should definitely cover up.

	25-08-2004 22:28									#40
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The fact that this is even an issue for some people is just plain sad.

	25-08-2004 23:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc This is why we have women's restrooms.

	25-08-2004 23:34									#42
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
This is why we have women's restrooms.




I hope you don't expect them to breastfeed on the toilet.

	26-08-2004 00:01									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos There is no reason why a woman cannot wait for an appropriate time for doint this.

Why? You get a child food when its hungary, why shouldn't you be able to do the same for a baby?

	26-08-2004 00:01									#44
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I am not sure about that. As someone who experienced a lot of female toplessness on French beaches, I can testify that not all toplessness is good. Some people should definitely cover up.

Bigot.

	26-08-2004 00:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Bigot.

What's wrong in saying that I don't like to look at a naked ugly woman?

	26-08-2004 00:26									#46
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Then wear a blindfold.

	26-08-2004 00:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat What's wrong in saying that I don't like to look at a naked ugly woman?

You said they should cover up while better looking shouldn't. What's the difference between that and saying that a white woman should cover up and a black woman shouldn't.

There isn't a difference.

	26-08-2004 00:44									#48
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd If people don't want to see other people, they can kindly stay inside.

Thereby fighting one act of discrimination by promoting another?

	26-08-2004 00:45									#49
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That's a bit of a stretch, Fabulous.

Anyway, if women want to breastfeed in public, that's fine by me. Most of them will be modest enough to cover themselves most of the way anyway. The others... I can look away (and should - after all, who the hell stares at a woman who is breastfeeding her kid?).

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 00:46									#50
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Thereby fighting one act of discrimination by promoting another?

Excuse me?


How is leting people avoid other people discrimination? If they are offended by people's apearances, they can either deal with it, or avoid it.

	26-08-2004 00:47									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian That's a bit of a stretch, Fabulous.

No, its not. Black people used to not be able to sit with white people because it disturbed white people. What's the difference between that then and making ugly people cover up now?

	26-08-2004 00:47									#52
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Anyway, if women want to breastfeed in public, that's fine by me. Most of them will be modest enough to cover themselves most of the way anyway. The others... I can look away (and should - after all, who the hell stares at a woman who is breastfeeding her kid?).

-Arrian [/QUOTE]

	26-08-2004 00:50									#53
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I don't think he was arguing for doing this by legislation - it was just a general comment. If he was seriously talking about using the law to "make ugly people cover up" (as if ugliness is objective!), that would be what you're talking about.

It's like me *****ing about stupid people voting. It bothers me, but I'd never actually want to make laws against it.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 00:51									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I don't think he was arguing for doing this by legislation - it was just a general comment. If he was seriously talking about using the law to "make ugly people cover up" (as if ugliness is objective!), that would be what you're talking about. It's like me *****ing about stupid people voting. It bothers me, but I'd never actually want to make laws against it. -Arrian

In my opinion, it was a bigoted comment, and I expressed that opinion. EDIT: Just as if he said black people should cover up. That's the point I was making, and it isn't a stretch at all.

	26-08-2004 00:52									#55
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Heh-heh. Just y'all wait. When you have kids, you'll realize that one of the biggest "Nazi's" (ala Seinfelds Soup Nazi) in modern society is the breast-feeding Nazi, the sort of person whom, when seeing a child being fed formula, goes to their mothers and start berating them in public. This happened to my wife a couple of times, but even more common was the disparaging stares and the overly loud "tsk-tsk's".

Common sense says "why is this even an issue? The kid needs to eat.", but the less rational part of me says "Stick it to those bltches!"

	26-08-2004 00:55									#56
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Heh. Yeah, there is sort of a cultish feel to the breastfeeders - but I do believe they have some serious evidence on their side (that doesn't mean people should get berated in public about it).

Emp Fab - hmm, ok I suppose. For some reason I just can't make the connection between racial bigotry and "bigotry" based on looks...

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 00:56									#57
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You must never have been fat .

	26-08-2004 01:04									#58
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Depends on what you define as "fat." I'm a fat skinny guy, if that makes sense. Before that I was just small & scrawny. I'm not going to win any modelling competitions, if you know what I mean. I've been picked on and beat on for being small (see HS thread). Even so, the comment didn't trigger the same response in me that it did in you.

Anyway, I'll concede.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 01:31									#59
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Word

	26-08-2004 01:38									#60
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To the Herb, and a beat like Bob Marley.

-Arrian