26-08-2004 19:30									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Ive never played Final Fantasy - that of course has violence as well as Lara Croft. I dont know wether to laugh or to cry, but either way thats going in my sig line.

	26-08-2004 19:33									#32
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Happy now?

Well it does tend to help the flow of your argument if you get the games right!

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark But from comments here it seems like it would be possible to improve on the gameplay in the Sims.

Who would make such comments.

	26-08-2004 20:23									#33
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quote: "Leisure Suit Larry: Magna *** Laude"

@ the auto censor.

	26-08-2004 22:57									#34
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Heh yeah I had to smile when I saw that

	26-08-2004 23:02									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike .......are also sometimes bad. But the existence of blood and gore can (and often does) coexist with a great game.

Surely, the same could be said for nudity and sexual acts?

Have anybody ever played Nintendo's Golgo 13? They had a brief cutscene involving the assassin and some woman in a sexual act as seen through a hotel window. It was... tasteful

	26-08-2004 23:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Surely, the same could be said for nudity and sexual acts?

I'm perfectly willing to believe that in principle. Name a game though.

	26-08-2004 23:17									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I'm perfectly willing to believe that in principle. Name a game though.

Doc, there ARENT very many games with nudity, good OR bad, cause they automatically earn AO ratings, and lose mainstream distribution. While games with blood and gore never (AFAIK) get more than M rating, which allows mainstream distribution, INCLUDING sales to minors in fairly considerable numbers.

If all of the violent games that deserve an AO rating as much as the nudity games do actually got AO ratings, I suspect youd have relatively few of them, and you wouldnt have so many good ones to point to.

	26-08-2004 23:26									#38
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It's a fair point.

I can recall a few games though, and they were all bad. IIRC that porn tycoon game was called Lola, if anyone remembers it.

	26-08-2004 23:51									#39
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Doc, there ARENT very many games with nudity, good OR bad, cause they automatically earn AO ratings, and lose mainstream distribution. While games with blood and gore never (AFAIK) get more than M rating, which allows mainstream distribution, INCLUDING sales to minors in fairly considerable numbers. If all of the violent games that deserve an AO rating as much as the nudity games do actually got AO ratings, I suspect youd have relatively few of them, and you wouldnt have so many good ones to point to.

I am absolutely unable to understand the idiocy that ratings are. And most publishers speak of them as they matter. I don't care what rating the game has, I know what it's in there if I am buying it! And it's not like that rating has any influence whatsoever. Besides, they're downright stupid often. Civ games need a M rating!

	27-08-2004 00:04									#40
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Ratings? Games has ratings? Oh yeah, movies has those too I think...

I've never bought games/movies based on ratings, not even as I was 6... When I was 6 I watched movies that was rated M (or higher), and it didn't have any effect on me...

	27-08-2004 00:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I am absolutely unable to understand the idiocy that ratings are. And most publishers speak of them as they matter. I don't care what rating the game has, I know what it's in there if I am buying it!

I think many parents dont know much about games and its supposed to help them. Though my impression is that many of those parents ignore the ratings anyway, so it doesnt help.

And yeah, Id agree alot of ratings are questionable. That was part of my point.


I like Civ as an educational tool, despite its obvious inaccuracy - but I see issues with say an eight year old and end game nuclear war

	27-08-2004 00:17									#42
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quote: Ive never played Final Fantasy - that of course has violence as well as Lara Croft.

they've already corrected you, but whoa....

final fantasy is an rpg whose main characters that you control onscreen until ffx-2 have all been male (well, for most of the game). just so you know. it's not an action adventure game at all.

that said, kassiopeia's first statement rings so true.

even better, this gets a +1 as opposed to my OT thread.

	27-08-2004 00:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio Ratings? Games has ratings? Oh yeah, movies has those too I think... I've never bought games/movies based on ratings, not even as I was 6... When I was 6 I watched movies that was rated M (or higher), and it didn't have any effect on me...

......said ADG, polishing his Uzi.

	27-08-2004 00:30									#44
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I think many parents dont know much about games and its supposed to help them. Though my impression is that many of those parents ignore the ratings anyway, so it doesnt help. And yeah, Id agree alot of ratings are questionable. That was part of my point. I like Civ as an educational tool, despite its obvious inaccuracy - but I see issues with say an eight year old and end game nuclear war

Assuming that it's actually parents who buy the games. Anyone who is 15 years old in a country where games are sold can probably buy a game on his own if he really wants to.

The big problems with game/movie ratings, IMO, is that the whole "it can influence people" deal is WAY overrated. A person born mentally healthy won't go shooting people because he plays too much Doom at any rate.

	27-08-2004 00:33									#45
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark better selling games like this to adults than games with excessive violence to kids.

true - make love not war i say

EDIT:

But to add my bit to this topic:

In the 1980's you had resolutions of around 300x180 ish at a maximum with a limit to a few colours(usually one at this highest resolution).

In the 1990's the amiga pushed that up a bit, but mostly it was the amount of colours you could display that made the difference(now in the thousands).

Now - its basically photo-realistic and i think game developers need to keep this in mind, if only to stop the knee jerk response from the media.

I can see video games being widely branded as the 'devils tools'(for example) if we aren't more thoughtfull on how we use this powerfull medium(having a kind of parental control over the level of blood/sex depicted in game is one way).

The weird thing is that the rateings partially are there for the parents to decide if little johny should be buying that particular game or not.
I've been buying games since the early 80's and never ever had my parents do it for me, and so in that way i've never experienced a sales outlet refusing to sell me a game because of the rateing on it - id be interested to hear if anyone has?

as a personal thing i dont like games(or the idea of kids playing games) that combine photo-realistic graphics and lots of violence - except where its used spareingly to add to the game(like a cut scene in a horror game).

All the attempts at depicting sex in a game that i've seen so far have mostly been laughable! So i've yet to become too concerned by it.

	27-08-2004 00:37									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Assuming that it's actually parents who buy the games. Anyone who is 15 years old in a country where games are sold can probably buy a game on his own if he really wants to. The big problems with game/movie ratings, IMO, is that the whole "it can influence people" deal is WAY overrated. A person born mentally healthy won't go shooting people because he plays too much Doom at any rate.

I have no doubt that had i given Doom to POTM at age 6 she would NOT have ended up shooting anyone. There are many other possible negative impacts, including subtle increases in aggressiveness, depression, etc. Im glad I let her be a KID, and enjoy drawing, and the outdoors, and dolls, and books. And when she did get on the computer it was Kidpix or Zoombini Brothers.

Kids shooting someone is maybe the justification for suing companies or censorship, neither of which I support. Ratings are about parents giving their kids stuff thats appropriate for them, and I think cultural products do impact kids. Though I suspect games are still a lesser impact than TV and music at this point in time.

	27-08-2004 01:18									#47
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Game ratings are for clueless parents who can't tell the difference between Pokemon and Doom III.

They're not even intended for people our age who already know the difference.