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Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 22:54
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IMO, Bush traded the economy for national security. And if you actually bother to perform the comparisons you will see that the economy hasn't suffered much at all.

Accodingly, the president doesn't have much control over the economy. So neither blame nor praise should be give to them for the way the economy behaves when such large factors as bubbles, wars, and terrorist attacks are factored into it.

Jaguar is offline Jaguar
King
Montgomery County, MD
Apr 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE OVERALL ECONOMY- THIS IS ABOUT A RISE IN POVERTY. ADD TO THAT THAT ACCORDING TO THE AMDINISTRATION THE RECESSION ENDED IN 2001 AND SINCE 2002 THE ECONOMY "HAS TURNED A CORNER" THANKS TO HIS TAX CUTS.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT BUSH'S HANDLING OF THE ECONOMY!!!!

Is that clear now!?

No. You needed to use a few more capital letters.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 22:55 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Poorly designed tax cuts, unnecessary war, idiot Fed. chariman.

Deficits are not a bad idea in the short term to stimulate an economy, provided that the money is spent on growing the economy. It wasn't

The war pulled a lot of people who had jobs out of their homes, shrinking their earning and spending power, as well as making it harder for businesses to operate at full capacity.

Greenspan raised interest rates when job increases weren't very strong yet. Yes, unemployment has dropped, because lots of people are running out of benefits and moving back in with mom and dad. But oh no, we wouldn't want the economy to overheat?

Eighty-four of the last ninety-four economic contractions have happened during Repug administrations. It's a wonder anyone thinks Repugs are better for the economy.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 22:58
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quote:
Poorly designed tax cuts


I agree, and you can blame Bush for all I care.

quote:
unnecessary war


Ignited by both Dems and Repugs alike.

quote:
idiot Fed. chariman


Who doesn't answer to Bush, and who wasn't even appointed by Bush... How does Greenspan sucking = Bush sucking?

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:04 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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I started off being firmly for the war in iraq.

I'm still glad we got Hussein out, however, when it became clear that no WMD's were to be found, I was among the number who dramatically changed his tune about the war.

Given proper execution and exit strategy (sadly, this was not a given), I still held the position that the war would be better than more of the same (no fly zones, sanctions that weren't working, etc).

Execution was slipshod, no exit strategy at all in the foreseeable future, freedoms being eroded by largely unnecessary PATACT 1 and 2. A whole new layer of beurocracy (Homeland Defense HUH?), and GePap is right. The number of people living on poverty now, after four years of the Shrub, is HIGHER than the # of people living in poverty when the man took office.

No matter how you slice it, no matter how you pretty it up...that ain't good, and part of the REASON for that is that the "jobs" this admin has been crowing about creating are of the burger flipping variety.

Lose ten software development jobs and open a new Mickey D's, and yes...you might have a net change of unemployment of 0.0%, but if those people are making 50% or more LESS than they used to be, then we got troubles.

The guy sucks a$$. His chief opponent sucks a$$.

If these two buffoons are the best we can pony up for the nation's highest office, I'm moving to Canada!

-=Vel=-

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:13 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
If these two buffoons are the best we can pony up for the nation's highest office, I'm moving to Canada!

-=Vel=-


Pack your bags... because that's what our wonderful election system has provided us with... dumb and dumber

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:15 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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Apparently so. I think I'm going to hooters on election night.

Sounds MUCH more entertaining than watching the electoral map....

-=Vel=-

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:16
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Waqtch out I hear they're banning the showing of hard nipples at hooters.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:18 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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Nooooooooooooo!



-=Vel=-
(anybody ever tried to ban THAT and my butt really IS moving! LOL)

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:20
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Japher
IMO, Bush traded the economy for national security. And if you actually bother to perform the comparisons you will see that the economy hasn't suffered much at all.


Comparison to what? Things are worst today than they were in 1999- so what if they are better than they were on 1457? Thats a meaningless statement.

quote:

Accodingly, the president doesn't have much control over the economy. So neither blame nor praise should be give to them for the way the economy behaves when such large factors as bubbles, wars, and terrorist attacks are factored into it.


And for the umpteeth time- this is not about the president and the eocnomy, this is about the president and programs to stem poverty. Poverty under Clinton was not cut so drastically due to just economic growth- if so, why were the numbers so damned high when he entered after the Reagan years? No, poverty is driven down by government programs (remember that the numbers were low in the late 60's and early 70's?) beyond just economic growth- Bush has ignored anti-poverty programs. That was a policy he deserves all the blame for.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:20
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Yeah, I mean, we can put up with being led by morons and ideological nutcases, but you better not take away our right to see hard nipples!

-Arrian

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:22 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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I'm voting for Oggie and Arrian this election! Hell with those other guys....

-=Vel=-

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
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Jul 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:23
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The main plank of my election campaign will be MORE COWBELL. I guess I'll need Guy as my running mate.

-Arrian

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:25
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I yield the Prez office to Arrian. I want some cushy job that lands me on the Director's Board of some major corps. (more cushy jobs for after office)

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:26 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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Well, I mean, between MORE COWBELL and MORE NIPPLE, I don't see how you can lose, *especially* in light of the competition!

Long as you don't get caught on camera reading "My Pet Goat" or go on about your Purple Hearts of dubious origins, you're gonna coast all the way to the big house!

-=Vel=-

NeOmega is offline NeOmega
Prince
Play Pentagenesis Beta!
Feb 2002
time: 21:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:29
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I have disagreed with Bush's economic policies at every turn... except his tax rebate.

However, the steel tarriffs, and canadian lumber trade restrictions were stupid, his tax cuts starting at the top and working down were stupid, (I favor trickle up tax cuts), his inability to cut even one program was stupid, (he increased funding to the National Endowment for the Arts even!).

He his a cut tax and spend conservative.... aka a national socialist, aka average American idiot unfit for office who thinks spending is Ok because we haven't quite reached what our lenders tell us is our absolute maximum credit limit.

Bush is hardly economically conservative. He spends money like he is the son of a powerful Oil millionaire. The Hilton sisters probably have a better sense of money than him.


.....AND his very, very expensive war was stupidist of all.

Worst... president... ever.

(except World War Wilson)

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:31
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quote:
Long as you don't get caught on camera reading "My Pet Goat" or go on about your Purple Hearts of dubious origins, you're gonna coast all the way to the big house!


That's easier said than done. Ogie is notorious for bragging about the 10 Purple Hearts, 11 Bronze Stars, 5 Silver Stars and three posthumous Medals of Honor he won while in the ****...

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
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Jul 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:34
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Ogie, you can head up the Department of Agriculture then. In return for my grant of this cushy job, you will not complain when I push for a budget that cuts your agency's funding (a lot). Deal?

-Arrian

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nat...Poverty.html?hp

quote:
Ranks of Poverty and Uninsured Rose in 2003, Census Reports
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 10:36 a.m. ET

Published: August 26, 2004

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The number of Americans living in poverty increased by 1.3 million last year, while the ranks of the uninsured swelled by 1.4 million, the Census Bureau reported Thursday.

It was the third straight annual increase for both categories. While not unexpected, it was a double dose of bad economic news during a tight re-election campaign for President Bush.

Approximately 35.8 million people lived below the poverty line in 2003, or about 12.5 percent of the population, according to the bureau. That was up from 34.5 million, or 12.1 percent in 2002.

The rise was more dramatic for children. There were 12.9 million living in poverty last year, or 17.6 percent of the under-18 population. That was an increase of about 800,000 from 2002, when 16.7 percent of all children were in poverty.

The Census Bureau's definition of poverty varies by the size of the household. For instance, the threshold for a family of four was $18,810, while for two people it was $12,015.

Nearly 45 million people lacked health insurance, or 15.6 percent of the population. That was up from 43.5 million in 2002, or 15.2 percent, but was a smaller increase than in the two previous years.

Meanwhile, the median household income, when adjusted for inflation, remained basically flat last year at $43,318. Whites, blacks and Asians saw no noticeable change, but income fell 2.6 percent for Hispanics to $32,997. Whites had the highest income at $47,777.

Even before release of the data, some Democrats claimed the Bush administration was trying to play down bad news by releasing the reports about a month earlier than usual. They normally are released separately in late September -- one report on poverty and income, the other on insurance.

Putting out the numbers at the same time and not so close to Election Day ``invite charges of spinning the data for political purposes,'' said Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y.

Census Director Louis Kincannon -- a Bush appointee -- denied politics played any role in moving up the release date. The move, announced earlier this year, was done to coordinate the numbers with the release of other data.

``There has been no influence or pressure from the (Bush) campaign,'' Kincannon said Wednesday.

Official national poverty estimates, as well as most government data on income and health insurance, come from the bureau's Current Population Survey.

This year the bureau is simultaneously releasing data from the broader American Community Survey, which also includes income and poverty numbers but cannot be statistically compared with the other survey.

The figures were sure to generate attention regardless of when they were released since they typically serve as a report card of sorts for an administration's socio-economic policies.

Partisan debate figures to be more heated now, when the economy and health care are big issues in the tight presidential election race between Bush and Democratic challenger John Kerry.

Since job growth was slow until the second half of 2003 and wages were relatively stagnant, it was likely the report would show an increase in the number of people in poverty, said Sheldon Danzinger, co-director of the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan.

William O'Hare, a researcher with the Annie E. Casey Foundation, a private children's advocacy group, expected increases in the number of kids in poverty and without health insurance. He called the changes in the way data is being released ``bothersome.''

``It makes me wonder whether this statistical agency is being politicized in some way,'' said O'Hare, who has studied the poverty and health insurance data for over two decades.


so, two years after the recession ended, Bush continues to spread his form of "wealth" around.


Yep, and it won't matter if Kerry is elected it will continue. 4 more years is locked in.

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:34
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Let me say this on an stand-alone post:

The poverty rate is not simply a function of economic growth or decline-the fact it is fundamentally lower today than 20 years ago is a function of greater social changes AND government programs. Government can keep people out of poverty even during weak growth with some basic assistance. Bush, much like Reagan, has ignored anti-poverty programs and cut funding- one simple example, the feds are holding backs milions slated to go for the section 8 housing voucher program, menaing that perhaps up to 25,000 people in NYC alone might be made homeless. And again, simply "millions", not billions here, so in fact even for what the gov. is a small amount of money can make drastic differences in poverty rates.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:34 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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I thought that'd be four purple hearts, three silver bars, two bronze stars.....and a partridge in a pear treeeeeeeee...................



-=Vel=-

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
THIS IS ABOUT A RISE IN POVERTY. ADD TO THAT THAT ACCORDING TO THE AMDINISTRATION THE RECESSION ENDED IN 2001 AND SINCE 2002 THE ECONOMY "HAS TURNED A CORNER" THANKS TO HIS TAX CUTS.


The economy has 'turned a corner'. Look at GDP growth rates. Poverty numbers are irrelevant.


why in the hell would you use the phrase "turned the corner"?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
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Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Ogie, you can head up the Department of Agriculture then. In return for my grant of this cushy job, you will not complain when I push for a budget that cuts your agency's funding (a lot). Deal?

-Arrian


Will it get me an in with ADM?

PS. By massive budget cuts I assume that still allows for substantial salary increases for Secretary of Agriculture.

Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 26-08-2004 at 23:42

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha


why in the hell would you use the phrase "turned the corner"?


Ask Bush. Its his phrase.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:40
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


Ask Bush. Its his phrase.


Its Herbert Hoover's phrase actually(if a bunch of democrat commie sites like cnn are to be believed). Which still doesn't answer why Imran would use it.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
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Jul 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:44
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quote:
By massive budget cuts I assume that still allows for substantial salary increases for Secretary of Agriculture


Well, sure, I guess I will need to compensate you for the pain and suffering you will experience when firing hordes of useless federal employees.

-Arrian

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian


Well, sure, I guess I will need to compensate you for the pain and suffering you will experience when firing hordes of useless federal employees.

-Arrian


Great! Perfect experience! Next stop CEO!

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:47
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quote:
Maybe your studies of economics and law have blinded you to a simple fact- politics is about comparisons.


quote:
Comparison to what? Things are worst today than they were in 1999- so what if they are better than they were on 1457? Thats a meaningless statement.


Your the one who wants comparisons. I show you a comparison of post post-recession economies and you just blow it off. Obviously you care not for the facts, and are being very shortsighted on the issue.

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:48
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Yep. Of course, we must call it "staff adjustment" not firing. THEN you're using proper CEO-speak.

-Arrian

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 26-08-2004 23:49
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quote:
Yep. Of course, we must call it "staff adjustment" not firing


"Restructuring"

 
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