29-08-2004 00:21									#1
	Iron City Proposal Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Our current plan is to build a colony at the iron, but we may want to consider building a city in the area instead at this location:



The lake nearby gives this city a source of freshwater and also is 2fpt. The oasis is 2fpt as well, allowing this city to easily grow and sustain itself.

Advantanges: One less tile to road on our way to Iron. Don't have to "throw away" the slave unit. More unit support and a decent place to build workers from. We could mine Iron hill and oasis and get some decent production out of it.

Disadvantages: We'd have to road the iron instead of just ploping our slave onto it and building a colony. Not sure if it would get us iron any faster.

Please discuss.

--Togas

	29-08-2004 03:21									#2
	Support Apolyton

We would have to do 2 things.

Build a settler
Build the road

Considering both, we will loose 11 turns.

I think for the long term, it would be far better to do this, but if we want to build any swords instead of upgrading all warriors, then this is not an option.

Warrior into Sword = 60gp

We currently have 166 gold at +18gpt

War activities are scheduled to commence in about 19 turns.

We got the worker from PAL at the understanding he would be used to build a colony on the iron. We may have to give him back once the iron is connected (although I doubt thay would ask us to do so, we should offer it as obviously it was intended to expend the worker).

I have no strong feelings either way, as both options are available to us at this juncture. Our finances and our production are adequate whichever way we go, it is just a decision as to what is more important, building cities that are productive sooner, or researching new technologies.

	29-08-2004 04:00									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On more thing to take into account - we have unit support of 24 units, and currently have 22. The extra city will give us 4 more free units support when we will badly need it. Shortly our treasury will start to 'not grow as fast' as we pay for unit support.

	29-08-2004 04:20									#4
	Support Apolyton

I second the city versus the colony. I like the idea of more unit support and having a free worker for use later on.

	29-08-2004 07:55									#5
	Put an end to popups!

I vote for the city over the colony as well.

	29-08-2004 09:22									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have several points to make:

• GodKing has already planned for a settler to be built soon, and that can be just pushed up the queue if we want the Iron city, so there's no problem with getting a settler.
  
  
• We are not going to be in our Despotism for all of those 20 or so turns until the invasion, right? We will be changing to Republic in time for the (hopeful) GA to be worth it, I assume? Asuuming what we are getting now is a minimum during the time we are in Despotism, we will have about 270 (18gpt x about 15 turns) more gold when we go into Anarchy for the switch to Republic, so we will have around 430 gold available for upgrades and rushes. That means 7 upgrades. That's OK for the war, and we may pick up another 20 or so gold from taxmen during Anarchy (maybe).
  
  
• In Rep, each new city added would increase the number of units we can support for free by 1 (so 1gpt savd) and also adds at least 2-3 in extra trade. So more cities will contribute significantly to our upgrading and rushng income should we need it, and should probably be encouraged as much as possible.
  
  

	29-08-2004 09:32									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The minimum time to get a settler built and in place (assuming the other roads to it are built before it arrives) is 11 turns - GK where did your value of 11 turns come from? Settler build and movement considerations, or worker roading considerations?

In that time, both Hypnos and Nekki Aphro can build one warrior each instead of the first Sword in their queue before the Iron is hooked up. And that is not counting any delay in getting the Iron hooked up after the city is founded. So with current queues, if we expedite this new city settler, then we can still have a couple more Warriors to upgrade - giving us 12 in all. And surely if we are not going to be using up that slave on a colony we could use him to build the road on the Iron at the last minute? If there was no city he'd be gone forever, so we are still going to benefit from having him after the Iron is connected.

Hope all that makes sense.

	30-08-2004 05:24									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It was settler build that I used. When I calculated the settler, we have a 5 turn build and 5 turns of movement and 1 turn to settle. I can probably shave 1 turn off of the build at the cost of a little bit on our food (city growth).

Oh crap - I was looking at my original roading schedule (where we go to the west of the mountain and not on the east).

Looking at where the road is now, we will actually have less of a delay than the 11 turns. Now, lets look at roading.... 2 roads on flatlands and 1 on a hill.... should work out real well for timing. Ya, lets do it.

	30-08-2004 06:05									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Ok but if this is what we are going to do I should let PAL know.

	30-08-2004 22:13									#10
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I prefer the city to a colony myself.

	30-08-2004 22:38									#11
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Go ahead con, but tell them we will not give the settler back (if they want it) until after the road is built.

	31-08-2004 10:43									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sounds like a good plan to me. I'll just reiterate the point about talking it over to PAL, soon, so they don't feel betrayed by us or something.

	01-09-2004 13:31									#13
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The city looks a better proposal to the colony

	01-09-2004 23:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot The city looks a better proposal to the colony

I concur, so long as we can get all the required units there in time.

	02-09-2004 03:27									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Since there has been much posted support for this, sounds like we should go with it. PAL shouldn't feel unhappy, but if they do, well, bad luck. We should offer their slave back if they are unhappy about this though.

Otherwise maybe a Consul should set up a poll about this...?

	02-09-2004 04:11									#16
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No, no need for a poll. I will adjust workforces as appropriate. Our FAM needs to contact PAL about our changed strategy, and offer to give back the worker AFTER the road is built.