24-01-2000 03:31									#1
	Demo 5 Technology/Social Advances Increase the size of your Attachments

Here's what I beleive will be on demo 5 currently:

1. Some basic technologies, probably Metallurgy, Agriculture, Economics and Government.

2. Some of the specific technologies linked with these basic technologies. I don't know which ones yet.

3. A simplified RP system. Here's how it will work, and it will work like this except for the cultural modifications in the final version. Each percentage of each basic tech has an RP cost of 1 RP per % point of the next level to go up. It also has the same cost to maintain itself at the current level, so FE 10% would cost 20 points to achieve 11%, 10 to keep it at 10% and 10 to go up another percentage. If one doesn't achieve the minimum to keep it at the current level, then it drops. We're unsure how much right now. Also we'd like to have decimal points for partial increases in tech % levels. FE with the 10% lets say u didn't have 20, but u had 15 then u'd have 10.5%. The only prob is if it would be too hard/take up to much time coding.

4. I doubt there will be any items/imrpovs in this version.

5. There might be some military advanced, but prob not since mark said to worry about getting it implimented before integrating it with other models.

	24-01-2000 05:00									#2
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LGJ:

I've got a major concern with your linear research point model. Obviously I haven't seen it defined yet as to exactly what is in a research point. But if the stuff that allows you to buy research points is connected in any way with population size, economic power, or money, all of which will grow exponentially during the game, then I don't see how your system can work. Any linear system would inherently make technologies Way too hard to get or maintain in the early years, or Way too easy to get as the game progresses. Can you explain to me how your system is going to overcome these difficulties? I made a post at the end of the first page of the Tech 2 thread outlining how I think things probably have to go for the research points necessary for the techs. Although it wasn't particularly inspired, it at least has the relevant scales over time correct.

The idea requiring constant "support" for the basic techs is cool!

I'd be happy to work together with you and Richard to put together a mathematical implementation of your ideas.

[This message has been edited by Mark_Everson (edited January 23, 2000).]

	24-01-2000 21:55									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As I designed the system, I assumed that the percentage scale is logarithmic. Each 10% increase in a tech represents approximately a doubling in knowledge of skill. The cost of upkeep and advance both depend on the current level of the tech; the effort doubles about every 10%. So the effort you put into it as a proportion of your economy should be constant.

Here is an preliminary equation and explanation I sent to LGJ in an e-mail a while ago:

I thought that was already decided. I liked the idea of having to spend RP's based on the level of the tech. As you learn more, you have to increase the effort to increase your knowledge to things that are harder to learn. Also, you have to constantly spend RP's to keep techs at their current level. This too is based on tech.

So we have a differential equation of the form dP=(RP-a(bP^n))(c/(dP)^m) where a, b, c, d, n, and m are constants, P is the current percentage and RP is the amount of RP's spent on that tech.

If RP is zero, the tech declines at a rate proportional to the level of the tech. If RP=xP, there is no growth. You can see that the input required to keep the tech level constant increases as the tech does, to simulate the greater amount of teaching required. In between these two, the decline is less rapid but still present. If the first term is greater than zero, then the tech rises, but the rate of the rise slows as the tech level inreases.

	25-01-2000 10:45									#4
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Thanks Richard... That one magic scaling law was all I needed to hear to make me happy