01-09-2004 08:32									#31
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Kid,

quote: I believe I am, and no it isn't charity.

I thought Vel, etc., already destroyed you in this debate.

AS,

quote: you surprise me dave... i wouldve thought you would be against unemployment benefits point blank...

Believe me, I am.

	01-09-2004 08:37									#32
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Vel destroyed the ficticious character, Kidicious Prime. He's very proud of himself too.

	01-09-2004 08:42									#33
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I'm pretty sure you admitted it, by the way, but everyone else saw it. Either way, you still haven't explained why someone else is obligated to employ you.

	01-09-2004 08:44									#34
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I'm not claiming the right to a specific job, or to be hired by a specific employer. I do expect to be employed in the society that I live in though. I think it's a basic right.

	01-09-2004 08:50									#35
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quote: I'm not claiming the right to a specific job, or to be hired by a specific employer. I do expect to be employed in the society that I live in though. I think it's a basic right.

Lemme get this straight. You don't have a right to a job from anyone in particular, but you do have a right to be employed by "society". Yet obviously the job market in "society" is made up of individuals who run various types of businesses, so you ARE in fact claiming a right to be employed by a specific person, you just won't (and can't) say who. The sad thing is, you probably don't even see the consistency problem with what you just said.

	01-09-2004 09:04									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer i REALLY could make this into a big issue because i, as well as several other people, were fired without legitimate cause, but i'll just let it slide. maybe i'll take some solice in the fact that one of the fired people is bound to run into the manager by himself soon enough and whoop his ass. he'll probably press charges and that guy will go to jail but i'd be content to know he got his just due.

any chance you could take it to one of the corporate managers? don't just let this slide, speer. put up a fight.

	01-09-2004 09:16									#37
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Unemployment is not charity, it is insurance. You pay into the system, and and get benefits when conditions are met, for a limited time, and based on what you put into the system.



In New Jersey, if you can prove (i.e., tell a good story) that you were pushed into quitting, it is the same as being fired, as far as benefits are concerned.

	01-09-2004 09:18									#38
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quote: Unemployment is not charity, it is insurance. You pay into the system, and and get benefits when conditions are met, for a limited time, and based on what you put into the system.

It also isn't voluntary, for either myself or for companies, which is just as bad. That makes it a wealth transfer program.

	01-09-2004 09:34									#39
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I have to agree Alb, you might as well fight the system here. Talking to a corporate manager could possibly get you some kind of a nice severance package.

	01-09-2004 09:37									#40
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Severance package? As an hourly employee in the service industry, not in any supervisory role?

	01-09-2004 09:40									#41
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Speer, you will likely have to fight to get your Unemployment, since your job will very likely claim (and not unreasonably) that you were fired with cause. There are, however, many other hurdles you'll need to clear as well, such as working at least two of the last four quarters and having made enough money. If you get it, Unemployment is generally 2/3rds your regular wage, unless you were well paid. I get 1/4 my former wage, for example.

	01-09-2004 09:42									#42
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Severance package? As an hourly employee in the service industry, not in any supervisory role?

I was being somewhat facetious, but given the controversial circumstances of why he was fired, it may be possible to get something if he tries to get tough with them.

	01-09-2004 09:51									#43
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He'll need a laywer to get tough, and it's not likely the amount of money he can collect is worth a lawyer's time.

	01-09-2004 10:09									#44
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Lemme get this straight. You don't have a right to a job from anyone in particular, but you do have a right to be employed by "society". Yet obviously the job market in "society" is made up of individuals who run various types of businesses, so you ARE in fact claiming a right to be employed by a specific person, you just won't (and can't) say who. The sad thing is, you probably don't even see the consistency problem with what you just said.

Me think you don't know what 'specific' means.

	01-09-2004 10:10									#45
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Chegitz, that's Florida, and everyone knows Florida Unemployment sucks.

There's a fair shot that Pennsylvania's Unemployment program matches much closer to New Jersey's.

	01-09-2004 10:17									#46
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quote: Me think you don't know what 'specific' means.

Then explain to me how you can be owed a job if no one specifically owes you one.

	01-09-2004 10:25									#47
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Then explain to me how you can be owed a job if no one specifically owes you one.

If there is no job for me, then I should be compensated.

	01-09-2004 10:26									#48
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Pretty shitty, it was back in my fast food days. Like 6 somethin.

Uh, that is above minimum wage. On what grounds would you be eligible for it?

	01-09-2004 10:30									#49
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quote: If there is no job for me, then I should be compensated.

So, then, people don't actually owe you a job, they just owe you money, right?

	01-09-2004 10:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Chegitz, that's Florida, and everyone knows Florida Unemployment sucks.

Well, I've only lived and worked in ****ing "right-to-work" states (IL & FL), which is really a misnomer, since what they mean is you have NO right-to-work.

	01-09-2004 11:21									#51
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No, it means you have a right to work if someone will employ you. I love Texas BECAUSE we're a right to work state, I only wish my companies HR policies reflected that a little more.

	01-09-2004 13:17									#52
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So David, what do you think should be done then about the people that can't find a job (if the state doesn't do anything to find a job for them, and neither pay them any unemployment compensations)?

	01-09-2004 13:26									#53
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What should be done? Well, those people have a responsibility to themselves - I don't have a responsibility to them (except to refrain from harming them). What they should do is find a job - and believe me, there are jobs available, such as flipping burgers at McDonald's and unloading trucks at Walmart. They may not want the jobs, but that's no reason for me to pay them not to work.

Ultimately, though, my answer is going to come down to "Let them starve" rather than force others to pay them for doing nothing - let's be crystal clear about that.

	01-09-2004 14:07									#54
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A more PC answer would probably be "let their families take care of them". That, however, doesn't ring too well with the ultra-individualism so in fashion in USA (and most of Western Europe) today.

	01-09-2004 14:12									#55
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What do you mean?

For most those are the options, state support versus filial support.

Seems to me, there are very few individualists that will insist that the family should not play a role in supporting their members.

	01-09-2004 14:21									#56
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Except, of course, for Krazyhorse.

	01-09-2004 14:54									#57
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I don't really agree. The culture today is saturated with individualism - everybody for themselves. How else could you explain the multi-million paychecks of CEO's or the absurd interest in all kinds of reality shows. This is a far cry from the traditional family role, where better-off relatives support their less fortunate ones. And now I'm not talking only about the core family (parents and their children), but also cousins, uncles and so on.

	01-09-2004 14:58									#58
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I agree with you, Hurricane, but the problem with this individualism is that most people who espouse this view, in rejecting the traditional family, rely upon the state.

How many of these individualists reject welfare?

	01-09-2004 15:28									#59
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Good question.

	01-09-2004 17:35									#60
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quote: flipping burgers at McDonald's

no flipping takes place anymore. they use a double grill that cooks both sides simultaneously