01-09-2004 23:38									#1
	Five cities and 860+ units? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I just had to post this one. I was on 2049 when American landed some units on one of my islands. So war was declared and I nuked them for yukes as the game would be won on the next turn anyway.


So the game ends and no one is close (US has less than half my score), but since all had declared on me, I checked their numbers.

Arabia has 5 cities size 12 or less and has over 860 units. I knew America had about 1300 or so, but they at least have 13 cities and many are metros.

None of the AI's can build any units without disbanding one, they do not even have any workers.

Five cities and so many units, just amazing.

	01-09-2004 23:56									#2
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I'm not sure which is more amazing on the surface, five cities and all those units, or all those units and only five cities.

	02-09-2004 00:11									#3
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Let me guess... 'pelago on Sid?

	03-09-2004 18:39									#4
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Now you understand why a 'dark side' Sid game is not my first option...

	03-09-2004 19:27									#5
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alexman I am not sure if it is archipelago or not. I think it is. The reason I say that is, I intended to play a contients game on Deity.

It was about two days later, I discovered it was a Sid game and I was on a contient or very large island.

So I realized I forgot to change the settings, so I have whatever I had in the previous game. Likely it is an island game, oh well.

MS I can never play true dark and I cannot play peaceful. This is because I do not like to build nothing but troops, until very late in the game.

I also do not want to maintain good relations, so eventually I must go dark. No matter what level the game. This is why I would be terrible at XCC.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 08-09-2004 at 21:13

	08-09-2004 18:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 MS I can never play true dark and I cannot play peaceful. This is because I do not like to build nothing but troops, until very late in the game. I also do not want to maintain good relations, so eventuall I must go dark. No matter what level the game. This is why I would be terrible at XCC.

If you're late in the game and you are (more of less) ahead, building lots of troop is useless, since you'll be against 300-500 units and you'll win eventually without going to war. Better to win it diplomatically or via the spaceship.

Good relations give you all the resources and/or luxuries you lack without going to war.

If you are really behind, a military campaign would give you the opportunity to extort some techs, but if there is a generation between your military units and the AI's, that will be costly.

BTW, did anybody win a 5CC game on Sid? Any references?

	08-09-2004 21:13									#7
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SS is the most common way for me, but I turned off all but Dom and Conquest in that game to force another out come.

The next to last civ I went after was America and they had over 1600 units. They sent about 160 MA's on one turn.

It was not a problem, but the bombers were a pain. I had 41 armies of nearly all MI and MA and with a barracks, it was a snap.

After they blow the bulk of their top force, I sent out to raze some cities. A pack of 10-12 MA armies usually gets the job done.

I pretty much cannot extort techs, they just don't give them up. Only two civs ever even ask for peace as I was destroying them.

I have not seen any reports on a 5cc win at sid at this point.

It will be a long time before I do it again as the issue of dealing with large numbers was brutal. If you have more than a certain number of units in a city you cannot get the right click list to scroll.

You are forced to go to F1 and then scroll through the units and the slider is very sticky with more than 30-40 units.

I had a few where I had more 100 slaves in the city with maybe 200 units (mostly armies). Even in the open field it is a big pain to scroll down a long list to find that settler or radar arty.

They need a new method of dealing with large numbers. They also need to make the zoom and fortify functions be on the top all the time.

Anyway I have no idea how you can be on good terms with the AI in mid game or later. I cannot do it, so it is not an option. I am not going to go around every turn or even every 10th turn to deal with all of the civs.

	09-09-2004 23:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Anyway I have no idea how you can be on good terms with the AI in mid game or later. I cannot do it, so it is not an option. I am not going to go around every turn or even every 10th turn to deal with all of the civs.

Yes, essentially that's the only way to be on good terms with the AI.

	10-09-2004 01:28									#9
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Gifts.... techs, gold, resources... it's really not that hard, v.

Last edited by Theseus on 08-10-2004 at 08:59

	10-09-2004 03:49									#10
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You just don't have any tech to gift, except to the really backward civs and even they are very dangerous as they will have 100's units.

Once they have gone to war with you and go furious, you really have little chance to move them off it.

My point is that I do not want to be on good terms with them. They are not going to sell me techs anyway, because I could not afford the price. It will include lux and or resources. I do not want them to have them.

It is the only way short of combat to slow them down.

	15-09-2004 21:47									#12
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I'm having problems with maintaining good diplomatic relations with my AIs too.

Why should I gift techs if they refuse to even consider trading some of theirs? Also most of the time they trade their luxuries among each other so there's none left for me. ******.

	15-09-2004 22:21									#13
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Gifting techs has a place in some games. One thing it could be used for is in a game where you are on a large land mass and there is at least one other land mass with several civs.

In that case, if you have a tech lead over your neighbors and do not intend to eliminae them soon, you may want to keep them some what up to date.

The reason is that it will help you stay in the hunt for techs. If you have 3 backward civs on you contient, the other contient will probably do better in research.

This is not the only possible use.

In a case where some civs are backwards, but not on my land mass, I may want to gift them some techs so they can hold off a possible KAI.

I may also find it useful to gift a tech to get them to put a strong city on a wonder build, so it cannotbuild anything else for a time.

Many many opportunities to do it. It is a thinking man (person)'s game.

	16-09-2004 19:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Why should I gift techs if they refuse to even consider trading some of theirs? Also most of the time they trade their luxuries among each other so there's none left for me. ******.

This happens when you do not check the diplo screen every turn. Most trade opportunities are there for 1 turn only. If you miss it...

Gifting the right techs to 'backwards' civs is a very cheap way of getting the AI's balanced. Yes, you don't 'get' anything, but you might prevent the emergence of a KAI.

	09-10-2004 17:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage This happens when you do not check the diplo screen every turn.

And keep extensive records of what happens when, n'est-ce pas? I have just started doing this in PBEMs - I couldn't imagine it in an SP game!

	30-10-2004 03:36									#17
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whats a KAI? geez i must sound like a newb

	30-10-2004 03:39									#18
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Killer AI. A very powerful difficult to defeat and otherwise challenging computer opponent. I think originally posited by Arrian or Theseus or something.

	30-10-2004 03:52									#19
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You can look at the topped thread of terms (glossary).

	23-11-2004 03:11									#20
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im a "noobz" to this site. what is sid game and dark game?

	23-11-2004 03:39									#21
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Sid game is a game played on Sid difficulty level, I believe.

I'm not so sure about dark game.

EDIT: I believe 'dark Sid game' is one where you're playing on Sid difficulty level and you start at a very disadvantaged position.

	23-11-2004 04:19									#22
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Yes Sid is the highest level provided in C3C (conquest). PTW and CivIII only go to deity.

Dark is likely a refernce to Star Wars and the dark side. In short it is mena to refer to warmonger play style. At least that is my understanding.

	26-11-2004 09:33									#23
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Okay, so like, I play on Regent, and all you people are like, playing on Sid level, and like, ACTUALLY WINNING, and so, like, how do you have 800 units with just five bases?

I think I'm going to have to go with Solomwi, how do you have only five cities with that many units? I mean, how do you support that many units, even as the AI with all those bonuses? That is just plain scary. It would take 5 hours just to watch all those units attack.

See, that's why I play on Regent. The most units you ever see is maybe 30. It's still big enough to make it fun, but not to big so turns don't last 3 days just to watch the AI move...

That was an AI civ, right?

	26-11-2004 10:34									#24
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I didn't have the units the AI did. They will basically have about 110-120 per city normally. Well not at the start, but in the middle ages.

Additional Free Support (AI Unit Support Bonuses) 24 at sid
Determines how many extra units the AI can support, in addition to any existing governmental bonuses, on the selected difficulty level. Note that this number is cumulative with all other support bonuses.

Bonus for Each City (AI Unit Support Bonuses) 8 at sid
Determines how many extra units the AI can support per city, in addition to any existing governmental bonuses, on the selected difficulty level. Note that this number is cumulative with all other support bonuses


Cost Factor (AI Bonuses) 4 at sid
Determines the cost factor that is applied to AI growth, shields, and research. The player's cost factor is always 10. Choosing a value higher than 10 means the AI will be at a disadvantage, while choosing a value lower than 10 means the AI will be at an advantage.

AI to AI trade rate (AI Bonuses)
Determines the percentage multiplier used in AI – AI trade sessions on the selected difficulty level. This value is a percentage (acceptable values range from 100% to 1000%) which is multiplied by the total value (in gold) of the initiating civ’s offerings, which is used by the "other" AI civ to determine whether a deal is acceptable or not. For example, with a rate of 120, an AI civ offering 100 gold to another AI civ for something would actually be worth 120 gold to the other AI civ.

In the end the AI will soon have built so many units it will have to disband all workers to keep up support. This was the only time I have seen any go much beyond 125 per city. I would suspect they are disbanding 10 or more units a turn and selling of structures, but who knows. I have seen them disband due to not being able to pay the up keep. Theu may have had trade income, but I tend not to give them any.

Hope this clears it up a bit.