03-09-2004 09:33									#1
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If a known tribe discovers the tech you are researching and the adjusted tech cost is below your accumulated total, will you receive the tech even if you are at 0% research and have no scientists?

	03-09-2004 09:44									#2
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I am not sure that you will have any accumulated beakers, if sciences is set to zero. Did you set it to zero on the sme turn?

If so, I would set one citizen to a scientist. I have not gotten any break throughs with even just one scientist, due to others learning the tech. This could be attributed to the techs cost.

So I would think that if you could have beakers accumulated to the level the tech required after discount, then you should be able to learn it. I just don't know if it is true or if you can accumulated beakers in your scenario.

	03-09-2004 09:58									#3
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The idea is that for xtreme MMing, you have set research all the way back and have no scientists. The GUI will show you "-- turns" for research time. If another tribe gets the tech and lowers your cost, do you get the tech next turn, or do you still need a single beaker to 'carry you over the threshold'?

	03-09-2004 11:37									#4
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You need that beaker, I suspect. IOW if you have no scientist or research, you cannot get a break through.

	03-09-2004 23:25									#5
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Yes, vmxa1 is right. You won't get the new tech with zero research, even if you have the required beakers.

	16-09-2004 14:13									#6
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Does anyone know how the 'discount' are calculated?

Seems to me it changed a bit from ptw to c3c.

	16-09-2004 18:28									#7
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bongo - I can say from testing that it is (although perhaps SLIGHTLY different due to rounding errors perhaps) essentially identical to that in PtW.

	16-09-2004 18:53									#8
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Weird, I am observing an 15% discount where there should be 33% according to the formula


Is this formula still valid btw? Found it in a .txt file on my HD. I think it's from a post by alexman.

Tech cost = (1 - 0.5 * k / (n-1)) * c * r / d
k = known civs that already have the tech
n = total number of civs left in the game
c = tech base cost
r = tech rate for the map
d = difficulty factor

If I read the formula right, you will get 50% discount if you are the only one not knowing a tech.

In my example polytheism(c=12?) are know by 2 out of 4 civs, monarch(d=9), tiny map(r=160).

Base cost 213g, calculated cost 143g, observed cost 181g.

	16-09-2004 20:08									#9
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Perhaps you don't have contact with one of the civs who know Polytheism, or one of them doesn't actually know the tech? That would result in k=1 and a 16% discount.

Otherwise I don't know. The formula should be correct for PTW and C3C as far as I know.

	17-09-2004 02:23									#10
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I have contact with all civs...two of them have reached the middle age. I'm at war with one of them btw, but that shouldn't matter?

There are a *tiny* possibility I've had a time glitch in my mind and checked the research price the turn *before* the second civ reached to next age...

oh well ...bedtime...will...check...tomorrow...must...sleep...now...

	17-09-2004 23:29									#11
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Two people with the tech, but at war with them and are getting a 15% discount and not a 30% ...

BINGO!

You've just confirmed my recent hypothesis in Conquests that civs you are at war with don't get the tech discount.

	18-09-2004 01:00									#12
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joncnunn , you won't get to test your theory in this game...

I was wrong. There were only one civ in the middle age all the time. The second wasn't in the middle age after all, it was from another cultural group and I confused the city graphics with those of the next age

I just noticed the graphic were different than mine