10-02-2000 18:32									#1
	Asynchronous multiplayer Tired of ads?

The old multiplayer threads are heavily slanted toward direct-connection multiplayer. There is brief mention of supporting PBEM, but nothing else.

Direct-connection problem: Most people don't have ten hours at a stretch to play games. It's hard to match schedules for 4+ players to actually complete a game.

PBEM problem: It takes far too long to play a game. One player can easily delay a turn for an extended period of time. Even with dedicated players, it is difficult to finish games.

Have you considered server-based asynchronous multiplayer? The game is hosted on a server which adjudicates turns on a schedule. Between adjudications, each player connects to the server and submits orders for the upcoming turn. If a player misses a turn, the AI plays it. With this model, it would be easy to run multiplayer games with as many as four turns per day.

There are, of course, lots of implementation issues to be worked out - for example, would players download a complete turn file, play offline, and upload orders, or would they use a client-server connection and play the turn completely online?

However, I think this model has significant advantages over direct-connection and PBEM.

	10-02-2000 21:17									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nice idea, but it would have to be an option. Mainly because someone will have to be able to run a server 24 hours a day. It could be added to the peer to peer thing. It would be a holding area for the commands, you wouldn't even have to have it calculate the game or anything (though you'd probably give it the AI). So someone creates the server. Everyone logs on the first time and gets the initial game state. Everyone gives commands, and the server stores them. Then when the next turn starts (once everyone has given commands, or the time limit is reached) then it starts passing out complete sets. Then the game is processed on each computer.

So from the user's point of view, he would log in and get the previous turn's orders. Those orders would modify his local save game. Then he could log off and play the turn (or stay connected) and then log back on and upload his orders.

PBEM is impossible, no question about that.

	11-02-2000 05:58									#3
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PBEM is difficult, not impossible. The popularity of SMAC via PBEM proves that.

Server space isn't that hard to come by these days. One person could easily host dozens of games on a single server. Games like Galaxy galaxy.pbem.net prove that the server based system works.

If adding it to the peer-to-peer system is a way to do it, then I think you should seriously consider that.

	11-02-2000 07:51									#4
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Chris:

Welcome to the forum!

What you request is possible, but our efforts right now are on single player anyway. If you want this to stay in the 'instituional memory' you should put it in the multiplayer thread. Otherwise it is likely to be long forgotten by the time we get back to multiplayer stuff...

	11-02-2000 08:24									#5
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I'll put a link to this thread on the "Multiplayer Coding" page. That way it won't completely disappear.

	11-02-2000 12:36									#6
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Thanks to Kull for linking this from the Multiplayer Coding page. That thread looked somewhat dead...which is to be expected since you say you're not working on multiplayer now.

I hope you keep multiplayer on the list of things 'to-do' later though. The SMAC games I've had the most fun playing are scenarios with 2-4 humans teamed up against an 'inflated' AI. One example - 4 humans with normal start vs. 3 pacted AI starting at 3x the power of the humans.

It would be very nice to be able to play this kind of game against a competent AI :-) Or to play games where human/AI alliances square off against each other. Or, the true fun game - where humans and AI are indistinguishable to the players.

	11-02-2000 15:36									#7
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Remember to have HotSeat play...

	12-02-2000 11:09									#8
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I'm with ChrisShaffer, in that the best multiplayer games are those "where humans and AI are indistinguishable to the players".

I've always hated that in Civ II multiplayer you always knew who was human and who was AI, but I guess it would take an increadibly sophisicated AI to compete against imaginative players.