08-09-2004 00:52									#31
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Yes, I am sure the small minority of middle class iraqis who now get to use the internet have all valid opinions about the situation.

And they are a tiny minority of the people, a self-selecitng group that does not mirror the population as a whole given the availability of internet access. So they have valid opinions that give us no insight watsoever into the opinions of the masses of Iraq anymore than anyone in this board by themselves does.

	08-09-2004 00:56									#32
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OH MY GAWD!!!


YOU GUYS ARE PWNING YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!1111

GEPAP IS THE BIGGEST ELITIST OF THEM ALL!!!!

Thanks guys, you've shown your true elitist colors. I can't believe that you would actually admit your narrow-mindedness and actually be proud of it.

You guys aren't intellectual snobs, you are WANNABE intellectual snobs!!!

PWN3DDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

	08-09-2004 00:59									#33
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quote: Yes, I am sure the small minority of middle class iraqis who now get to use the internet have all valid opinions about the situation. And they are a tiny minority of the people, a self-selecitng group that does not mirror the population as a whole given the availability of internet access. So they have valid opinions that give us no insight watsoever into the opinions of the masses of Iraq anymore than anyone in this board by themselves does.

You're right. You know even though there's opinions ranging from anti-american to Pro-american they must be the evil rich middle-class and thus this invalidate's their opinions. Only the opinions of the masses matter and only if they support your opinion. And I'm sure those evil middle-class citizens never associate with the peasants (heavy sarcasm) that make up the masses. I bet they just live in their own little world never knowning about anything else around them. If you read the site you'd see that there are people on there from all walks of life. Students, doctors, people walking down the streets, etc. But you will do anything to keep your opinion from having any sort of challenges to it. I guess you are taking notes from the Democrats.

	08-09-2004 00:59									#34
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Do you realize, even for a second, that ONLY THE ELITE IN IRAQ are going to have access to computers and know english?

Do you honestly think some farmer in southern Iraq who may not even riht now have potable water or electricity, will be blogging?
Or some consturction worker in Kirkut? Or some Iman in Baghdad?

Give me a break boy.

	08-09-2004 01:01									#35
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight You're right. You know even though there's opinions ranging from anti-american to Pro-american they must be the evil rich middle-class and thus this invalidate's their opinions. Only the opinions of the masses matter and only if they support your opinion. And I'm sure those evil middle-class citizens never associate with the peasants (heavy sarcasm) that make up the masses. I bet they just live in their own little world never knowning about anything else around them. If you read the site you'd see that there are people on there from all walks of life. Students, doctors, people walking down the streets, etc. But you will do anything to keep your opinion from having any sort of challenges to it. I guess you are taking notes from the Democrats.

You know, you give Fez a run for his money

	08-09-2004 01:03									#36
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quote: Do you realize, even for a second, that ONLY THE ELITE IN IRAQ are going to have access to computers and know english? Do you honestly think some farmer in southern Iraq who may not even riht now have potable water or electricity, will be blogging? Or some consturction worker in Kirkut? Or some Iman in Baghdad? Give me a break boy.

You're right. Iraqi's are a backward people incapable of being educated. They must all be farmers incapable of knowing the world around them. And the farmers here are the same way. They are a simple people knowing only god and the land. Construction workers are no different. They are taught only how to complete their tasks of menial labor and then they return to their humble dwellings to await the next day of work. I think you are describing 15th century Europe, not Iraq. Maybe you should do some research on Iraq you might find they are not as uneducated and backward as you make them out to be. And you are right, I am but a boy who knows nothing and I should really be bowing to your will for you are far more educated and intelligent than I. Please, teach us all.

	08-09-2004 01:08									#37
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Do you realize, even for a second, that ONLY THE ELITE IN IRAQ are going to have access to computers and know english? Do you honestly think some farmer in southern Iraq who may not even riht now have potable water or electricity, will be blogging? Or some consturction worker in Kirkut? Or some Iman in Baghdad? Give me a break boy.

Keep digging yourself a hole, I love it!!!

And even if that were true, what are you implying that they are 100% pro American!?!? Your argument is so narrow minded it goes against most of the liberal, open minded ideas you claim to represent.

Sucks to be caught in your own moral loophole/copout doesn't it?

	08-09-2004 01:08									#38
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You honestly think 11 bloggers out of 25 million people give you an idea of the pulse of the nation? then you are a fool. But then your posts prove it.

	08-09-2004 01:10									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Keep digging yourself a hole, I love it!!!

Oh, thanks for the love Teddy Weedy

But I will think of you when I think of the uncultured peons!

	08-09-2004 01:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Do you realize, even for a second, that ONLY THE ELITE IN IRAQ are going to have access to computers and know english? Do you honestly think some farmer in southern Iraq who may not even riht now have potable water or electricity, will be blogging? Or some consturction worker in Kirkut? Or some Iman in Baghdad? Give me a break boy.

Wait a second.... Weren't you in favor of nuking those farmers in the south.

Whoops forgot that was southern USA.

My bad.

	08-09-2004 01:11									#41
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I am sure there are only 11 in all of Iraq!

	08-09-2004 01:13									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GePap You honestly think 11 bloggers out of 25 million people give you an idea of the pulse of the nation? then you are a fool. But then your posts prove it.

Hmmm....now would they be more accurate and truthful than a foreign news organization like say, AL JAZEERA???

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


Stop it dude you're killing me this is too easy!!!!!

	08-09-2004 01:14									#43
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I think Gepap and Agathon portray the typical liberal as a hypocritical elitest perfectly. And they wonder why liberalism is on its way out. Guess it's because the "masses" see them for what they are.

	08-09-2004 01:15									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And even if that were true,

Which it is, given that the literacy rate in Iraq is now under 80%

quote: what are you implying that they are 100% pro American!?!?

I will give you a buck if you can quote where in the thread I said such. But you can't, cause I never such a thing. Even ML states some are anti-American

quote: Your argument is so narrow minded it goes against most of the liberal, open minded ideas you claim to represent.

My arguement is that a small group of bloggers don't in any way represent the voice of Iraq anymore than Che and Theben and Sava and you and Imran all of a sudden represent the views of the US. Thats an arguement based on reason, the basis of the liberal idea. Yours is based on emotion, the basis of, well, irrationality.

quote: Sucks to be caught in your own moral loophole/copout doesn't it?

	08-09-2004 01:16									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I am sure there are only 11 in all of Iraq!

Count the links in the site given. There might be more- of course, you can;t even conduct a worthwhile poll with less than say 600 people in a country that size. And I do doutb there are more than 100 blogs.

	08-09-2004 01:16									#46
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Interesting thing about Al Jazeera is that it comes up over and over again in the Iraqi blogs as a station that can't be trusted. They see it as a foreign influence in league with the terrorists. Even the ones that don't trust the US see Al Jazeera the same. But then you see a country like Canada ban the FOX news channel because they say it is full of propaganda but then admit Al Jazeera as "another perspective". Interesting isn't it?

	08-09-2004 01:17									#47
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I'm sure you are more "reasonable" than anybody else.

YOUR argument is based on snobbery, pure and simple. It's not even intellectual snobbery, it's WANNABE intellectual snobbery. To be an intellectual snob you will need to credentials and intellectual skills to rise above everyone else but unfortunatley they are vacant.

	08-09-2004 01:19									#48
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Actually you will find that there are tons of blogs everywhere. This is but one site and this site has links to other sites that have links to other sites as well. How long have they had internet for? Expect many many more bloggers and Iraqis to come online soon.

	08-09-2004 01:21									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Interesting thing about Al Jazeera is that it comes up over and over again in the Iraqi blogs as a station that can't be trusted. They see it as a foreign influence in league with the terrorists. Even the ones that don't trust the US see Al Jazeera the same. But then you see a country like Canada ban the FOX news channel because they say it is full of propaganda but then admit Al Jazeera as "another perspective". Interesting isn't it?

	08-09-2004 01:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'm sure you are more "reasonable" than anybody else. YOUR argument is based on snobbery, pure and simple. It's not even intellectual snobbery, it's WANNABE intellectual snobbery. To be an intellectual snob you will need to credentials and intellectual skills to rise above everyone else but unfortunatley they are vacant.

You are unworthy. Just get that straight.

See, if you were worthy, you might be making a less assenine arguement which does not even address the simple point: the views of an Iraqi blogger are no more a "true" showing of the attitutes of your average Iraqi than the arguements of Sava show the true opinions of the average American.

And given the problems of eletrical coverage and the deterioration of Iraqi education in the last 20 years, this is even more true in Iraq since internet access is limited.

	08-09-2004 01:30									#51
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Lets just make it eve more simple:

All you guys can show is a few bloggers- I can point to the ability of Ayatollah Sistani to put together a crowd of tens of thousands in a few hours. Which is a more clear proof of where public opinion lies?

I mean, its really pathetic. Funny how you girlie-men hide behind "intellectual snobbery" hysterics without even being able to address such a simplistic difference.

Oh, and get a room you two!

	08-09-2004 01:30									#52
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Keep it coming, I love it!


I'm sure if there were an Iraqi Gepap on the blogs then we would know the 100% truth because only he is cool enough to know the REAL situation!!!!

Gepap Kemal Mohammed is the ONLY source for news in Iraq!

	08-09-2004 01:30									#53
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Uhhhh... let's stop with the personal crap.

Discuss the topic... NOT THE POSTERS...

Carry on...

	08-09-2004 01:30									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Keep it coming, it love it! I'm sure if there were an Iraqi Gepap on the blogs then we would know the 100% truth because only he is cool enough to know the REAL situation!!!! Gepap Kemal Mohammed is the ONLY source for news in Iraq!

Damn straight I am! You finally have said something that is true.

	08-09-2004 01:32									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Lets just make it eve more simple: All you guys can show is a few bloggers- I can point to the ability of Ayatollah Sistani to put together a crowd of tens of thousands in a few hours. Which is a more clear proof of where public opinion lies? I mean, its really pathetic. Funny how you girlie-men hide behind "intellectual snobbery" hysterics without even being able to address such a simplistic difference. Oh, and get a room you two!

What the hell does Sistani have to do with the media????

Let's cut the crap and get to the bottom line. And be honest:

1) You agree with Al Jazeera so they are a valid source of information
2) You disagree with the bloggers so they are not a valid source of information

	08-09-2004 01:38									#56
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"Gepap Kemal Mohammed is the ONLY source for news in Iraq!"

That was hillarious. I'm going to put that in my signature.

	08-09-2004 01:41									#57
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Test

	08-09-2004 01:44									#59
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Since when is that the point?

ML seems to want to say that these Iraqi bloggers are indicative of public opinion throughout Iraq.

I have made the rather simple point that given Iraq's current situation (the decline of education for 2 decades, widespread poverty and unemployment, spotty electrical service outside of big cities and even in big cities) the bloggin population is limited, and more likely than not from a very specific population, middle class students and individuals.

I mention Sistani becuase, if you want to show popularity of an opinion, it would be nice to point to something other than just a web log, like the ability to organize real political activity in Iraq in support of the US.

	08-09-2004 01:45									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight "Gepap Kemal Mohammed is the ONLY source for news in Iraq!" That was hillarious. I'm going to put that in my signature.

Yes, so everyone gets it straight, who the only valid source of info from Iraq is according to Ted Striker.

I expect him to mimick the party line from now on