08-09-2004 01:47									#61
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GePap has a very valid point its not as if so-called intellectuals have been successful here in the US of organizing any real meaningful political activity.

	08-09-2004 01:47									#62
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How could they NOT be indicative of public opinion?

The whole argument fails because once again you are lumping them all together because they have internet access so somehow that makes them a special group and therefore their opinions don't matter. It's a poor argument.

	08-09-2004 01:51									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker How could they NOT be indicative of public opinion?

Because a handfull of people =/ the plurality, median, or mean of the opinions of 25 million people?

quote: The whole argument fails because once again you are lumping them all together because they have internet access so somehow that makes them a special group and therefore their opinions don't matter. It's a poor argument.

Their opinon matters as much as that of the guys lobbying granades at Marines. The difference is while these guys are blogging, the other guys are doing (lobbying granades) and creating facts on the ground.

A few months ago some groups tried to put together an anti-terrorism protest by Iraqis. I think 5000 people showed up. Sistani then held a few rallies- hundreds of thousands showed up. Which set of ideas do you think is more popular?

	08-09-2004 01:54									#64
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Comrade Gepap doesn't see individuals or acknowledge individualism. Everyone is put together in groups according to economic and educational status. To determine the group's status Comrade Gepap uses his superior intellectual skills to label each group properly. Therefore this internet group is nothing more than a bunch of priveledged middle class aristocracy out of touch with the common man's opinion. Long live the motherland.

	08-09-2004 01:55									#65
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So then why do those same principles not apply to Al Jazeera?

Handful of people, and top of that, FOREIGNERS

Sorry, you can't have it both ways

	08-09-2004 01:55									#66
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quote: A few months ago some groups tried to put together an anti-terrorism protest by Iraqis. I think 5000 people showed up. Sistani then held a few rallies- hundreds of thousands showed up. Which set of ideas do you think is more popular?

Which set of ideas do you think is safer?

	08-09-2004 01:55									#67
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As the sole source of news from Iraq, who else will know better? NO one

	08-09-2004 01:56									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So then why do those same principles not apply to Al Jazeera? Handful of people, and top of that, FOREIGNERS Sorry, you can't have it both ways

Sorry, but who the **** is talking about Al Jazeera? cause I am not.

	08-09-2004 01:57									#69
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See what I mean?

Double standard.

Argument fails since it isn't applied equally.

Nice side step though.

	08-09-2004 01:57									#70
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Which set of ideas do you think is safer?

The obviously less popular ones.

	08-09-2004 01:58									#71
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Comrade Gepap doesn't see individuals or acknowledge individualism. Everyone is put together in groups according to economic and educational status. To determine the group's status Comrade Gepap uses his superior intellectual skills to label each group properly. Therefore this internet group is nothing more than a bunch of priveledged middle class aristocracy out of touch with the common man's opinion. Long live the motherland.

A correct assessment.

	08-09-2004 01:59									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker See what I mean? Double standard. Argument fails since it isn't applied equally. Nice side step though.

Maybe you are not getting it, but I don't care about Al; Jazeera, nor am I speaking about them, nor do they matter.

	08-09-2004 01:59									#73
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Guys layoff already. GePap fully understands the impotence of the so-called intellectuals and their impact on society as a whole.

	08-09-2004 02:01									#74
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If you read any of the iraqi blogs you'd see that people like Al Sadr have become the next Saddam. They have people everywhere and people are afraid to express opinions contrary to him because bad things happen when you do. Maybe you haven't seen the videos of when Saddam took power and had everyone gather and began calling out names of people "suspected" of being enemies of the state. Those people were never seen again and by the end people were chanting Saddam's name. Amazing how that works.

	08-09-2004 02:01									#75
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by GePap Maybe you are not getting it, but I don't care about Al; Jazeera, nor am I speaking about them, nor do they matter.

But you support them as a valuable news source, do you not?

	08-09-2004 02:02									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Guys layoff already. GePap fully understands the impotence of the so-called intellectuals and their impact on society as a whole.

Yup. I have Ogie Oglethorpe to show as a shinning example of that

	08-09-2004 02:02									#77
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quote: Well, he is right Ramo. I do like it how you and Agathon dismiss them as "rants," and "idiots." Elitists

This is idiotic. Because I don't see a certain Iraqi blogger (who likely is in the elite himself) as worth reading, I'm an "elitist" somehow? What kind of inane logic is that?

Have you read Indymedia today? Elitist.

	08-09-2004 02:03									#78
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Fortunately I is one of them there southerrrners now.

You let me know next time I can cover your back bud.

	08-09-2004 02:03									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker But you support them as a valuable news source, do you not?

No, they are redundant. We have plenty of useless "news" stations as they are. I stick to PBS and the newspapers.

	08-09-2004 02:03									#80
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okay

i thought you were in the "they are the only independent Arabic souce of information in Iraq" camp


they are hardly redundant though

	08-09-2004 02:04									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Fortunately I is one of them there southerrrners now.

Oh, I am so sorry. Trully I am. Oh, and nuke #4675 arrives around 7:15pm.

	08-09-2004 02:06									#82
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quote: This is idiotic. Because I don't see a certain Iraqi blogger (who likely is in the elite himself) as worth reading, I'm an "elitist" somehow? What kind of inane logic is that?

Actually we were referring to your idea that Iraqi blogs are rants not worth reading. And you're right, students are part of the elite.

	08-09-2004 02:07									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Uhhhh... let's stop with the personal crap. Discuss the topic... NOT THE POSTERS... Carry on...

For those that have seem to missed this...

	08-09-2004 02:09									#84
	Got spare money?

Now that things are getting "collegial"?

	08-09-2004 02:11									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker i thought you were in the "they are the only independent Arabic souce of information in Iraq" camp

When it comes to trying to figure out the moods of the iraqi people, I stick to events on the ground.

	08-09-2004 02:13									#86
	Remove this text

So you should read more blogs!

	08-09-2004 02:15									#87
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I don't read any blogs from anyone. If I am going to read people's opinions, I prefer debate like here in Poly, or reading policy pieces by people well versed on the subject.

	08-09-2004 02:19									#88
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quote: Actually we were referring to your idea that Iraqi blogs are rants not worth reading.

I never said any such thing. In fact, I specifically said that I read some Iraqi blogs in that very post! You're just making **** up.

	08-09-2004 02:22									#89
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I don't read any blogs from anyone. If I am going to read people's opinions, I prefer debate like here in Poly, or reading policy pieces by people well versed on the subject.

Didn't you just say you were interested in the "scene on the ground." The garbage collector? The shopkeeper?

The people you just mentioned are that privileged middle class you just scorned.

	08-09-2004 02:24									#90
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quote: There's a broad range of political opinion in Iraq, just like in the US. Just because some guy or gal in Iraq has a computer doesn't give any specific legitimacy to their rants.

Nope, you're right. I'm just making this quote up.