22-09-2004 01:20									#31
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jaybe:

i just created a scenario to test it... incredible! i never new that was possible!

but you are wrong on one thing: aeson's "exploit" was not pre-conquests, but the first conquests AU course: au501!

here the link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...100#post2721100

and here the quote:

quote: Originally posted by Aeson [...] I had been running a very scarce military after the capture of Osaka. Just keeping enough units to keep it from flipping, while the rest of my empire was defended entirely by Workers. So the fact that everyone was busy beating each other up suited me just fine. [...]

jaybe, how did you actually notice this feature? not even aeson did

	22-09-2004 01:21									#32
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rhoth:
thumbs up for keeping the DAR updated! all other threads have died

	22-09-2004 02:06									#33
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sabrewolf, I was thinking of that "no military allowed" AU game, which feels like it might even be pre-PTW!

I don't recall specifically HOW I discovered this. I have always enjoyed the opportunity to use Marines and therefore knew I needed to wake them, and occasionally a landing site is at the end of a transport's movement so I cannot "move" the transport onto the beachhead. I may have read a reference to workers (perhaps from Soren), or perhaps I just "tried it."

	22-09-2004 02:12									#34
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oh, i didn't even know that AU game existed. wow, a PP game. you need bloody good culture and bribes to keep those pesky backstabbing AIs out

i've used the waking units quite often, for example when a ship barely reaches a coast, the units can be unloaded. (or when using the ship-chaining exploit )

but well done on the discovery!

	22-09-2004 02:17									#35
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf rhoth: thumbs up for keeping the DAR updated! all other threads have died

Hopefully mine will die soon...when Beta is defeated.

	22-09-2004 02:23									#36
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no, that's when the fun begins... beating the AI as fast as possible (or like nathan, winning a domination victory without conquering a single city )



keep us posted with the screenshots from every turn and your 50-cavalry stacks of doom

	22-09-2004 02:39									#37
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf no, that's when the fun begins... beating the AI as fast as possible (or like nathan, winning a domination victory without conquering a single city ) keep us posted with the screenshots from every turn and your 50-cavalry stacks of doom

If I do beat Beta I wasn't intending to continue on. I tried playing an SP game very recently (to gear up for the new AU course which I had originally intended to play, but now I might not) and it started to bore me again, which is why I stopped playing SP games a few months ago. PBEMs and the interaction with humans (and the trash talk that goes on in several of the games I'm in ) are the reasons I still play Civ3.

This game has been fun, not because of browbeating the AI into doing what I want them to do, but because I'm matching wits with a person I like and respect. If I'd played it solely as the SP version I likely wouldn't have made it this far before getting bored with it.

	22-09-2004 07:40									#38
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf jaybe: i just created a scenario to test it... incredible! i never new that was possible! but you are wrong on one thing: aeson's "exploit" was not pre-conquests, but the first conquests AU course: au501! ... jaybe, how did you actually notice this feature? not even aeson did

You're right, I never noticed that either. Does the same thing apply to Scouts, Explorers, Radar Towers, and Outposts? I've never seen an AI amphibiously invade one of my Outposts or Radar Towers, but maybe they are just dumb that way.

This whole "defended by Workers" is taken out of context though. I was merely mentioning my lack of any military units outside a few keeping a city from flipping. There was no wall of Workers, though I mentioned the possibility in a later post in the thread.

That later post:

quote: Well, it might be more apt to say I was defended by the oceans. Drafting allows you to run basically no military if your landmass is secure, because the AI will never land more at once than you can deal with by drafting. If you don't mind the 'exploit' you can even do the same thing with short rushing. I was able to deal with the only 'peacetime' landing by draft, but would have used short rushing if I had to. You can be invincible (on your landmass) with just Workers up till the Vikings or Marines show up too. I don't do this as it's usually too costly, and a bit too unreal for my tastes. I do set up outposts on coastal Hills and Mountains so that any pre-amphibious invasion has to be on flat land though.

	22-09-2004 08:09									#39
	860ad - 2 turns after the initial start of the war Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Not much has happened. Beta has done an efficient job of blocking my main force from landing. Next turn though my main stack should finally be able to land. About time. My northern stack has started to spread out a little bit to harass a bit more area. Unfortunately I lost a cavalry to a defending knight.

One good thing though is that the Germans have captured his northernmost city. Once again Beta has been concentrating so much on me that he has neglected the German and Persian forces that are attacking him.

	23-09-2004 10:42									#40
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Small update...I finally landed my main force.

Nothing else to really report...other than that Beta has an army and now has cavalry as well. It's looking a little the worse for wear not being able to cut his saltpeter in the first turn of the war.

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	26-09-2004 02:35									#41
	890ad Got spare money?

During 880ad I didn't do much other than move units. Beta seems to be trying to take the high ground with his hoplites and muskets...so I'm attempting to flank him. He also abandoned one of his cities near where my landing spot was last turn.

That led to this pretty picture. He has placed a bunch of units on a mountain. Using my combat settler I took away several of his roads and used them to place cavalry next to his cities as well as blocking that stack of 4 muskets, 8 hoplites, a cavalry, and a medieval infantry he placed on the mountain. Why go through when you can go around, and keep him from getting back to his relatively unprotected cities.

I also took one of his other cities as evidenced by another ruin.

Unfortunately my stack of cannons did one whole point of damage against his mountain stack. I'll find out next turn what he does with it, but I'm hoping he moves from the mountain. I have plenty of defense for my city if he goes that way, and if he tries to attack my cavs with his defensive units it is a waste for him and I can gain that mountain and move my slow-movers through it.

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Last edited by Rhothaerill on 26-09-2004 at 04:35

	26-09-2004 02:41									#42
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And in the north, the Germans continued to do me a favor. They attacked Artemisium to the point that there was only one 1hp cavalry defending it, which I took. I decided to keep the city as a base for now as I do not have a second combat settler for the north. The northern squad wasn't originally intended to do much other than keep Beta from his iron and saltpeter up there. Things have changed as he still has his iron and the southern saltpeter, but I've effectively denied him both his horse resources now (along with a luxury item, incense, in the south).

I still don't want to get too cocky, but things are looking good for me right now. My AI allies have been doing pretty well damaging him so far and keeping his forces spread out in two different areas (soon to be three if a German galleon I saw unloads his stuff in the middle of the jungle where I had originally earmarked some units. )

Oh and if you're wondering about my slow research it is for some rush builds in my two new cities. A temple and barracks in Artemisium will help, and a barracks in the southern city will be nice too...though I may not build that if I end up taking three more of his cities next turn with my cavalry.

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	26-09-2004 03:20									#43
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well done! a multi-front war. poor beta

i see him cavalry only has 2 units loaded in it. i recommend you attack it no matter what... even if you loose 3 or 4 cavalry in the process. because 2 cav armies have the same stats as normal cavs (except more HP), but 3 cavalry get an additional defensive point.

also, it looks like herakleia isn't defended well. with a regular(?) medinf on top, it's likely that he has removed all other units.

i think you can be positive about the game. if he would have had enough countermeasures for you, you would have felt it by now. but it looks as if his forces are mostly defencive. i predict a victory within 15-20 turns

	26-09-2004 03:22									#44
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And our game has ended. Beta has officially conceded the game as my maneuver above left his entire core mostly undefended. Within two turns his city production would be cut in half along with no longer having the ability to build cavalry to at least take the fight to me.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 26-09-2004 at 03:27

	26-09-2004 03:26									#45
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what a pity! now you won't get to play out the fun part :muahahahaaa:

	26-09-2004 03:31									#46
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf what a pity! now you won't get to play out the fun part :muahahahaaa:

Building up to this was the fun part for me. It would have been nice to play it out a bit more, but the ending was a foregone conclusion with the sheer amount of units I have and his wide open core. Despite him being first in land area and number of cities, I was still outproducing him. With half his core gone and soon all of his resources the best units he'd be able to produce are hoplites and longbows.

	26-09-2004 06:45									#47
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf well done! a multi-front war. poor beta i see him cavalry only has 2 units loaded in it. i recommend you attack it no matter what... even if you loose 3 or 4 cavalry in the process. because 2 cav armies have the same stats as normal cavs (except more HP), but 3 cavalry get an additional defensive point. also, it looks like herakleia isn't defended well. with a regular(?) medinf on top, it's likely that he has removed all other units. i think you can be positive about the game. if he would have had enough countermeasures for you, you would have felt it by now. but it looks as if his forces are mostly defencive. i predict a victory within 15-20 turns

Heh, missed this earlier.

Regarding attacking the cavalry army I only had two cavalry up there. I had never intended to try to take cities with that batch of units (just resources) so it was mostly defensive. After discovering Beta's warrior-wall I had to change tactics a bit. I ended up losing a cavalry while trying to take Argos, and then another later on after retreating into German territory to heal. Beta had enough units to keep Argos so I decided to turn to getting my muskets in position to protect my ancient cavalry that ended up landing over in Babylonian territory after failing to be able to land in the midst of his jungle cities. You can't see it from the screenshot, but I have a bunch of ancient cavs on the mountain one tile north of Herakleia with the intention of trying to take the city and move farther into his core lands.