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Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:15
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quote:

I thought you were catholic. I guess not.


Well, I'm not Catholic, I'm a Protestant.

But I'm curious as to why you believe that this is not what the Catholics teach as well.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:16 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And that's why you are a national socialist

One of the central features of socialism is the belief that society can improve man over time.


I'm not socialist or a nationalist. Therefore I'm not a national socialist. Actually one of the central features of socialism is the belief that government can improve man over time, I'm for a small but effective central government.

Odin, no I didn't.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:16
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The Catholic Church teaches men can gain salvation through good works.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:21
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quote:

That's laughable at best. It isn't a challenge. It is my sexual orientation.


It is a challenge.

quote:

It is part of who I am, like heterosexuality is part of your own life.


I don't think that my preferences are essentially part of me. For if our deeds and inclinations could not be separated from who we are, then we cannot be saved, we cannot be cleansed from sin.

quote:

I want to live my life, and don't want to live in misery because of the wants of radical christians as yourself. I want to have a boyfriend, not a girlfriend and I don't want to live in isolation.


Well, I try not to live my own life, and this is something that I struggle with. I want independence, even though this desire has brought me many troubles in the past, when I really should be asking and getting help.

I don't think that it is necessary to have a partner in order to be happy, one can be happy without one. I agree with you that I would rather have a girlfriend at this time, but that seems not to be in the cards.

That's one of the things about Christianity, is that you are never in isolation. You always have and know that there is someone who loves you and cares for you, even when no one else does.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:24
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quote:
Fascism has little to do with individual "perfection". As a system, fascism is about the primacy of national identity, and of an ongoing and eternal competition between nations which necessitates a militaristic outlook together with a reverence for the national identity in order to have total unity of the Nation as it strives to win in the zero sum game of world politics.


that doesn't quite describe Spanish, Portugal, Lithuanian, Roumanian, Dominican, or Bulgarian fascism...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:25
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1811

From the Catechism of the Catholic church:

quote:

It is not easy for man, wounded by sin, to maintain moral balance. Christ's gift of salvation offers us the grace necessary to persevere in the pursuit of the virtues. Everyone should always ask for this grace of light and strength, frequent the sacraments, cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and follow his calls to love what is good and shun evil.


So one is saved by the grace of Jesus, and not by his own works apart from Christ.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Albert Speer


that doesn't quite describe Spanish, Lithuanian, Roumanian, Dominican, or Bulgarian fascism...


That is becuase of all political systems, Fascism is the least developed and most contradictory.

In fact, I would question really how many true fascist regimes there have been, becuase in essence a true fascist regime is revolutionary as well as reactionary. I don;t think Franco was much of a fascist, much more a reactionary. He got rid of most of the real fascist true-believers by sending those troublemakers to be cannon-fodder in the eastern front.

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So one is saved by the grace of Jesus, and not by his own works apart from Christ.


Doing good deeds demostrates your worthyness of hat grace.

Come on man, this is one of the basic distinctions between Catholics and Protestants (for example, why catholics do confession and protestants don't).

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:33 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It is a challenge.


No it isn't. It is who I am. Challenge? Not at all.

quote:
I don't think that my preferences are essentially part of me. For if our deeds and inclinations could not be separated from who we are, then we cannot be saved, we cannot be cleansed from sin.


Another reason why I'm not christian. I want to live honestly and I want to have a love in my life. Christianity cannot get in my way. Furthermore, that's why I'm not christian.

quote:

I don't think that it is necessary to have a partner in order to be happy, one can be happy without one. I agree with you that I would rather have a girlfriend at this time, but that seems not to be in the cards.


I want to have a boyfriend and I would be happier with one. That's is how it is. I don't know about you but I would feel better with someone special rather then alone and miserable. I know some people who are good living on their own, but I'm not one of those people. I want to have that someone special.

quote:
That's one of the things about Christianity, is that you are never in isolation. You always have and know that there is someone who loves you and cares for you, even when no one else does.


I don't even believe in god. I want to find somebody I can hold in my arms, not some made up god. So basically, you do not convince me even one bit.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:24
Wink  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
At least spell right..


Fez is a spelling nazi!

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:39
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just saw that

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:40
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quote:

Doing good deeds demostrates your worthyness of hat grace.


For if man were to be gaged on his actions, apart from Christ, than none could be saved, for all have sinned and fallen short.

quote:

Come on man, this is one of the basic distinctions between Catholics and Protestants (for example, why catholics do confession and protestants don't).


Protestants confess their sins to God. Catholics have a sacrament through their mediator, the priests.

The differences in confession have more to do with the sacramental aspect of Catholicism rather than salvation.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:41 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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This is why I'm atheist. So I can live honestly and truthfully.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:41
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quote:
That is becuase of all political systems, Fascism is the least developed and most contradictory.


that is because it was the only political system to not have decades of philosophical and intellectual incubation before being implemented. Compared to socialism which had several decades of nascent debate, fascism was more of a practical and localized idealogy. Only Heidegger and a few lesser known Italians and French, most of whom had only converted to fascism well enter their careers, argued the fascist cause.

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel


Fez is a spelling nazi!



I'm not sure he cares so much about the spelling part, though...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:46
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Poly ate my reply from James 2:16-24

If one is Protestant, and believes that Scripture is the primary authority, than how do you work with this?

Faith and Deeds

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


Martin Luther considered James to be an epistle of straw, because he believed, and he changed Romans, so that it read that man is saved by grace through faith alone, or sola Fidae.

Now, it is true that many Protestants in the past have emulated Luther, but the fact remains that this is a distortion of the bible. Sola Fidae is not scriptural, rather what is scriptural is the section of the Catholic catechism that I cited you.

Man is saved by the grace of the God through faith in Jesus Christ, so that Christ, in his mercy, grants us the ability to perservere in the virtues.

Faith and works, for faith without works is dead, whereas works without faith are useless.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:47 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Ben, no thanks. This thread was supposed to be of light mood, I don't want your religious indoctrination.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:48
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quote:

So I can live honestly and truthfully.


Why should confession of sins be less than honest?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:24
Arrow  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by joncha


I'm not sure he cares so much about the spelling part, though...


Nah, he's not really a nazi. ( I am getting kinda tired of people trolling him... )

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:49
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Yes, let's stick to issues that make Fezcarlo happy. Like National Socialism.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:50 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Why should confession of sins be less than honest?


I think it is dishonest.

I don't confess to any god, as I don't believe in god. Why did you have to come to this thread and fill it with this religious indoctrination? I'm gay, and you are just going to have to accept that. That simple.

Joncha, I'm not national socialist.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:50
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quote:

Ben, no thanks. This thread was supposed to be of light mood, I don't want your religious indoctrination.


I'm replying to Gepap's question, not to you.

And you are not the owner of this thread, so

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:51 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I'm replying to Gepapa's question, not to you.

And you are not the owner of this thread, so


Yeah but this thread was directed at me. But seriously we don't need this religious intolerance in this thread or forum for that matter.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:52
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quote:

Why did you have to come to this thread and fill it with this religious indoctrination?


You asked me a question, so I tried to answer as best as I could.

quote:

I'm gay, and you are just going to have to accept that. That simple.


Fair enough. I'm not here to try to make you change your mind, but rather, to answer the question you posed.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:53 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You asked me a question, so I tried to answer as best as I could.



Fair enough. I'm not here to try to make you change your mind, but rather, to answer the question you posed.


What question did I ask? I thought you were responding to Gepap. I never asked anything of any christian because I don't care for what they say.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:54
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quote:

But seriously we don't need this religious intolerance in this thread or forum for that matter.


Then refrain from trolls like this:

quote:

originally posted by Gian:

Isn't christianity fascist like because it wants to get rid of gay people as myself?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:55 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Then refrain from trolls like this:



It was a rhetorical question.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:57
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quote:

I don't confess to any god, as I don't believe in god.


And I believe in God, so wouldn't the honest thing to do would be to confess to him?

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:58
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quote:

It was a rhetorical question.


Maybe to you it is, but to me, it's a troll, that I can't let stand, because it's false.

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:24
  Old Post 07-09-2004 00:58
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The troll-bots have been locked into an infinite loop! There's no stopping them now!!!1

 
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