14-05-2000 20:00									#1
	Thoughts About Demo 4 Suffering from ads?

I've been following the Clash project for some time already, though I've been a lurker for most of the time. One day, I was bored and had nothing else to do, so I decided to get the demo. I didnt get a chance to try it until the next day, though.

The next day, I started up Clash. I liked the looks of the graphics, and I had briefly glanced at the manual, so I knew that this demo would concentrate on warfare. So I took the units, and started moving them to enemy-controlled zones.

Not having read the manual, I didnt understand how to play it, and I expected it to use the normal Civ fashion, ending the turn after you had moved all the units. It didnt, so I couldnt figure it out. Then I noticed the 'Messages' window, and looked at the messages there. I had been so small and hidden by other windows that I hadnt noticed it earlier. By looking at the messages, I got a picture about the game, but I didnt bother to try to figure it out. I closed the game and moved to other things.

A few hours later, I decided to try again. When I started up the application, I thought how heavy it was, and took a long time to load, considering how small it was. This time, I read the manual, too. So I had my troops assault areas that had small power rings, and clicked on the "1" button to end my turn.

Well, the messages didnt lift my morale. The game told me that the chances to win were around 0.5 against 1.5, and my troops had withdrawn. I knew that I could make my troops fight at these odds, too, but since it would be suicide, I didnt. I briefly glanced at the economic and scientific windows, but they didnt make any sense to me. I ordered a few more attacks, and had my army escape at all times, even though I did manage to capture one square.

Frustated, I shut down the game, and hoped that the battles wont be like this in the final version, or otherwise I'll be avoiding war at all costs.

	14-05-2000 20:38									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hi Xuenay:

On your problem of not being able to get reasonable odds attacking a square...
There generally are not a huge number of squares that you can successfully take right at the start of the game. But there are usually something like three to ten squares that you can successfully attack opportunistically if all you want to do is take a square. Are you massing your forces? You really can't expect a unit or two to take much of anything. It's just not that much military power. And right now the defenders get a 50% bonus, so really you need a power ring approximately double the size of the place you are attacking to have a reasonable chance of success without troubling losses. Try massing your forces, and you should do significantly better. We haven't had any other complaints of your sort, so my guess is it's something you are doing the give you such a hard time.

You clearly Should expect to have some attacks "bounce", when your forces aren't adequate when the battle actually happens. The thing you should keep in mind is that enemy civs are moving around troops around also, and a place that looks good to attack at the beginning of the turn might be swarming with enemy troops by the end when the action happens. Also, with the way strategic combat support works, enemy forces that are adjacent to the square you are attacking can come to its defense, decreasing your odds dramatically. We are working hard to get a sensible "fog of war" feel for the strategic combat in Clash. This is one aspect of that.

On the other stuff, it's just not in the objectives right now to have its start up fast, look particularly attractive, or document features that aren't the models we are going with. That's why there's really no discussion of how the economic or technology models in the demo work.

	14-05-2000 20:58									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks, I'll try that. I guess I'm just too used to the Civ "stoneage warrior captures a modern size 30 city" system .
[This message has been edited by Xuenay (edited May 14, 2000).]

	15-05-2000 09:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

By the way, in one of the games, the first message I got (after the introductory messages) was "Culture 3 has been killed off". Is it intentional to have computer players that get destroyed before the play has even began?