18-06-2000 13:18									#1
	The Social, Government and Riots models are finally here... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I've just sent to Kull the documents for the three models and you'll all see them soon at the Clash web page. There've been so much enthusiasm about social things these days that it just couldn't be a better time for finally posting these models. If any of you want to have an idea of what's been going on concerning these models, Axi have posted a very clarifying summary at the revolutions thread... well done, Axi!

I know it's going to take at least a couple of days before the models appear on the web site and you get to read them.

Let's leave this thread for anything covering the interactions between the 3 models (which are strong) or for just general discussions about social stuff you feel are missing in these models. I'll open threads for each model in a couple of days so we can talk about specific things in each of them.

I'm expecting feedback from this very moment!

Rodrigo

	18-06-2000 19:05									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Rodrigo: Why don't you go ahead and post the three models on the forum? That would be a lot more convenient. If the model is the first post in the thread discussing that model, the discussion will make a lot more sense.

	18-06-2000 20:00									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Richard Bruns: This is not an easy thing to do since the models are large and full of tables and matrixes. But we will eventually have to do it, so, if Rodrigo doesn't mind me doing this, I will try to transcribe them into a readable forum format and start a thread for each one.

Rodrigo: I have read all three of the models and I've had a look at the worksheet you sent me. Congrats for all this splendid work: you've got things neatly organised and the worksheet is going to be a great tool. You have changed all the variables and abbreviations nomenclature though, as well as the general layout of the models, so I felt a little bit lost at the beginning. There is alot of explaining to do, especially concerning all the equations, even for me!

Forgive me if I have spoiled the suprise, but let's not keep them waiting!

------------------
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell

	18-06-2000 22:34									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I have taken the liberty of posting the three models summarised by Rodrigo, in advance of their appearance in the Clash Website. When they do, links to a MS-Excel worksheet containing the Govt model mechanism will be also available. The following is the introduction that Rodrigo wrote for the reader of the three models.

-----------------------------------------

Models for Society

All the things we may generally refer as "social issues" like politics, government, revolutions, culture evolution, religion, etc., appear to be inevitably linked with each other. It isn't easy to draw lines and create individual modeling for all the social effects we'd desire for Clash. This is why the three models proposed here covering society and its behavior should be seen as one, like sub-models of something bigger. Coherency between them has been carefully taken care of. Each one performs a particular task providing many of the elements we want, but some of the most interesting social effects are a result of the interactions between them three.

The three models are the Social Model, the Government Model and the Riots Model. I suggest you to read them in this same order for better understanding. This is what they do in a very general sense:

Social Model: Simulates culture evolution.

Government Model: Simulates politics within the civ's government.

Riots Model: Simulates people's discontent and what they do about it.

	19-06-2000 02:29									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Axi: Fantastic job putting the models in a readable form. Don't stop impressing me!!
Other thing: You're worried about me using other names for variables or changing the document presentation in the govt model. Believe me, it's the same model you saw with just details here and there. The only relevant new thing is the de facto influences.

All: If you want the MS-Word documents for these three models, I can e-mail them to you (roquijad@cec.uchile.cl). I can also provide you an Excel spreadsheet with the core of the govt model so you can experiment with it.

Do me a favor. After reading the models, please give your general impression before going into details. Tell us if you think something is really bad about them or if you think something very important is missing.

The govt, social and riots models, individually or as a result of the interactions between them, are including the following features:

Govt policies/laws regulating the civ
Different despotic levels leading to low or high player's control over the civ
Govt shifts, peacefully or violently
"Infinite" govt styles (kind of monarchy, almost monarchy, pure monarchy, etc)
Govt control over economic system: from pure capitalism to pure communism
Govt control over diplomacy: from passive/submissive to world conquest
Govt forms will tend to represent the civ's culture
Centralized or decentralized administration
Slavery
Several religions, "primitive" and "advanced"
Religion spreading
Religious discrimination and prosecution
Ethnic discrimination
Privileges for aristocracy
Culture evolution
Street protests and riots
Forced migrations to reduce chances of uprisings
Player's ability to bribe political adversaries
Player's ability to kill political adversaries
Clash of ideologies
Chances of ruler getting replaced
Chances of ruler getting murdered
Internal intelligence services to control discontent
Nationalistic fervors
Birth of new nations as a result of province independence
Birth of new cultures as a result of multiethnic civs
Instability in regimes (empires can go up and down)
Ideological propaganda
Politically active population according to its position in society
Continuos political activities
Political corruption
Military coups
Revolutions
Civil wars


Rodrigo

	19-06-2000 03:16									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

When you get a little more done and here a few comments from everyone can you guys (axi or rodrigo) send me a list of government social modifiers (to determine the type of gov/cultural group for whatever area) and a list of Religions moral codes. I NEED this in order to start working on the social advanced part of the tech/research model. You can send rich it also, but since he's not working on that part (i'm working mostly alone on this area, he's working mostly alone in the military advancement area) he may not need it just yet (for demo5 that is).

I need these because social advances will have additional base parameters that will not be in the other type of advances.
[This message has been edited by Lord God Jinnai (edited June 18, 2000).]