09-09-2004 20:32									#1
	GAMEPLAY: Pollution and Buildings Inflate your Upload Space

The anti-pollution city buildings are designed in that way that, once you build all anti-pollution buildings, the city has only 20% of poolution for production and for population left than it would be without those buildings. Unfortunatly this is not enough for city that produce a lot of production, I think this is not good as this is a problem for such cities. And I don't like the idea of not getting rid of all pollution at all, because I believe and hope that pollution can reduced to a level at that it doesn't matter anymore.

So I would like to modify the buildings in a way, that once all the anti-pollution buildings are built 100% or 99% of polltion is removed. From a gameplay point of view I would like to have an early building that reduces pollution. The best would be of course using an existing building for that.

Unfortunatly I don't know which of the buildings is the best one to go for, as I don't think it is the best idea to just increase the clening effect of existing anti-pollution buildings.

-Martin

	09-09-2004 21:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

99% with all buildings built is still too much, I guess. Maybe around 90% or so.

But currently, indeed, big productive cities are extremely polluting even with all precautions in place...

	09-09-2004 22:14									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Solver 99% with all buildings built is still too much, I guess. Maybe around 90% or so.

You are sure that you are talking about pollution reduction. I mean with the current settings, a city can reduce the total pollution by production and population by 80%. I think the pollution caused by population is not such an problem like the pollution caused by production. The pollution by population is capped by the city size, but the pollution by production is influenced by buildings and tile improvements. And the question is whether it is a good idea to teach the AI to build a gold improvement instead of a production improvement, because of high pollution.

-Martin

	10-09-2004 18:08									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ahh, I understand you better now.

quote: And the question is whether it is a good idea to teach the AI to build a gold improvement instead of a production improvement, because of high pollution.

While increasing effectiveness of anti-polution buildings is one way, I think it's pretty hard to teach the AI how bad polution is. Even for human players, it's pretty tough to evaluate. When should you be willing to take the extra polution and have insane production, when not, etc...

	10-09-2004 19:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Solver While increasing effectiveness of anti-polution buildings is one way, I think it's pretty hard to teach the AI how bad polution is. Even for human players, it's pretty tough to evaluate. When should you be willing to take the extra polution and have insane production, when not, etc...

I think it is not impossible, I teached the AI to build a food improvement if it is needed and not just, because this terrain has these stats. However the results would be different behaviour between pollution on and pollution off for tile improvements.

-Martin

	10-09-2004 23:01									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Solver Ahh, I understand you better now. quote: And the question is whether it is a good idea to teach the AI to build a gold improvement instead of a production improvement, because of high pollution. While increasing effectiveness of anti-polution buildings is one way, I think it's pretty hard to teach the AI how bad polution is. Even for human players, it's pretty tough to evaluate. When should you be willing to take the extra polution and have insane production, when not, etc...

indeed, in terms of my concern about it in the game, its only the effect on happiness that is the problem - if it actually damaged the enviroment in a serious way then you would play with much more care about polluting. Still the AI being able to take care of it would be much more of a problem.
I think in civ(1) the AI did actually send out settler units to clear up polluted tiles. How to do this in CTP2?

hmm ok so maybe the happiness hit is enough - but yes i find it annoying when trying to build my perfect eco-utopia, that even with all the right buildings and advances i'm still a pollution monster. I would like to think that in the future we could do better

	11-09-2004 01:24									#7
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor indeed, in terms of my concern about it in the game, its only the effect on happiness that is the problem - if it actually damaged the enviroment in a serious way then you would play with much more care about polluting. Still the AI being able to take care of it would be much more of a problem.

You never heard of the big Flood? With to much pollution it returns at least in CTP1 and probably in CTP2 as well, The effect is that all the beach tiles are turned into shallow water tiles and the adjacent tiles of the beach tiles are turned into beach tiles, so bye bye to your coastal cities. Well that is called a pollution reduction messure. Maybe one problem is that the AI in the current game does not pollute too much to go into the catastrophe.

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor I think in civ(1) the AI did actually send out settler units to clear up polluted tiles. How to do this in CTP2?

code:

	if (terrain_type == terrainutil_GetDead())
	{
		goal.type = terrainutil_GetTerraformPlainsImprovement();
		goal.utility = 9999.0;
	}

That's works pritty well, given the AI has enough PW and the according advance (Yeah that's the problem). Unfortunatly this is a little bit unflexible, who tells me that in the current mod plains are really the cheapest terrain to go for terraforming.

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor hmm ok so maybe the happiness hit is enough - but yes i find it annoying when trying to build my perfect eco-utopia, that even with all the right buildings and advances i'm still a pollution monster. I would like to think that in the future we could do better

I agree that we should dream of a future in that pollution doesn't matter. By the way I think the Garden Eden project is also something, that should be replaced by something better, a wonder that destroys cities is not marvellous.

-Martin

	12-09-2004 15:15									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: By the way I think the Garden Eden project is also something, that should be replaced by something better, a wonder that destroys cities is not marvellous.

I loved that Wonder .