09-09-2004 20:55									#1
	Any interest in Multi-Team Democracy Conquests? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm not sure if this is the right forum (mod please move to correct forum if this is the wrong one), but here it goes.

Basically it would be playing one of the multiplayer conquests, but to keep it interesting:

1. Demigod or above difficulty level

2. Raging Horde barb setting (not sure how much affect this would have on this, but wouldn't hurt.)

3. If there are fewer teams than number of playable civs in the game (eight on most of them), then the AIs would be given the best civs in that conquest, and the humans the worst.

Example 1: If there were three teams on the Age of Discovery, humans would be playing Dutch, Mayas, and Incans, and the AIs the rest.

Example 2: If there were four teams on Fall of Rome, humans would be playing Celts, Sassidens, Vandals, and Visigoths.

	13-09-2004 08:06									#2
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sounds great value



although Mark G may need to set up a new forum for it

	13-09-2004 08:40									#3
	Re: Any interest in Multi-Team Democracy Conquests? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Basically it would be playing one of the multiplayer conquests, but to keep it interesting:

What exactly do you mean by this? I have tried one or two Conquests, but are there particular MP suited ones? Or do you just mean taking a Conquest and MAKING it MP-friendly?

	13-09-2004 23:15									#4
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The second one.

Tweaks really, with locked alliances and wars, additional barb units in territory open because of the 8 civ limit.

	14-09-2004 03:13									#5
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raging hordes

	16-09-2004 05:58									#6
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Sounds neat, but I do have one problem with this though. We already have four Civilization III Democracy Games going on, and I doub't this would generate enough interest.

	16-09-2004 07:36									#7
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the way I see it is that we need one core player per team

the leader of the nation

some one who will rally the troops - get the gov happening etc

yea a despot of the highest order

personally I think we can do that

with that sorted then the others can come along and enjoy the party



with 8 committed player we can get this party rolling along

as to there being several civ III demo games - well that can be a good thing

and this would be a great C3C demo game

	16-09-2004 11:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot the way I see it is that we need one core player per team the leader of the nation some one who will rally the troops - get the gov happening etc yea a despot of the highest order personally I think we can do that with that sorted then the others can come along and enjoy the party with 8 committed player we can get this party rolling along as to there being several civ III demo games - well that can be a good thing and this would be a great C3C demo game

One core player? That just basically makes it a normal PBEM game. Each team would basically need three core members, to manage all the aspects. Well, you say it can be a good thing, but only if you have enough people. Everbody has been spread so thin, it's not even funny. I guess I'd join, but I just don't see it happening. A very good example was the Feudal game, that failed in the second round after so much hype.

	16-09-2004 22:27									#9
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Great idea but only if you limit yourselves to conquests that have a max of 8 sides.

	17-09-2004 02:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master One core player? That just basically makes it a normal PBEM game. Each team would basically need three core members, to manage all the aspects. Well, you say it can be a good thing, but only if you have enough people. Everbody has been spread so thin, it's not even funny. I guess I'd join, but I just don't see it happening. A very good example was the Feudal game, that failed in the second round after so much hype.

I agree that you do need / want more than one player per team

just that at the end of the day you need one person who is going to kick your game turn along every time is all

well they list that we have over 50000 members
so we could easily fit in another - right

as to it being a pbem, well any game with multiple teams like this can easily be described that way
the goal would be to get others interested
build up ya team

then get the game hooting at a good speed

there are a lot of demo players around

not sure why the feudal game really did die so quickly

it just may have been that the core game was changed so dramatically
and thus people had to stay on top of new rules and different ways to play civ, the game they love

	05-10-2004 12:49									#11
	Re: Any interest in Multi-Team Democracy Conquests? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'm not sure if this is the right forum (mod please move to correct forum if this is the wrong one), but here it goes. Basically it would be playing one of the multiplayer conquests, but to keep it interesting: 1. Demigod or above difficulty level 2. Raging Horde barb setting (not sure how much affect this would have on this, but wouldn't hurt.) 3. If there are fewer teams than number of playable civs in the game (eight on most of them), then the AIs would be given the best civs in that conquest, and the humans the worst. Example 1: If there were three teams on the Age of Discovery, humans would be playing Dutch, Mayas, and Incans, and the AIs the rest. Example 2: If there were four teams on Fall of Rome, humans would be playing Celts, Sassidens, Vandals, and Visigoths.

any further word on this

	05-10-2004 16:10									#12
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Not yet, but theres always hope

	05-10-2004 17:37									#13
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indeed one can hope

	06-10-2004 06:58									#14
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I'm torn. Part of me agrees with the idea that we have a lot of demo games underway. On the other hand - if you put this in the perspective that Paddy has - sort of an expanded pbem - then I am interested. The two demo games I have really enjoyed are the two poly ptwdg's - because they were both internal to Apolyton (and thus avoided all that crap), and because I was on small teams that did not have big administrative or governance issues. You simply discuss the strategy and the turn in question, and someone plays when the turn rolls around.

Awhile back I was pushing the idea of 'dynamic duo' pbems. Sort of along the same concept, but with a two-person team. So, I think this is worth discussing further.

The problem with the conquests in C3C is that they are all unbalanced to a certain degree, In fact, most make better SP games than they do MP games.

My suggestion for a new MP demo game would be a good theme, an advanced start (say three settlers, 3 workers, 3 warriors.. or something like that), and a very strict play time format. But I am open to ideas.

Thanks for raising the concept j.

	06-10-2004 07:06									#15
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let the ideas role

party party party

beers anyone

	06-10-2004 07:10									#16
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And OK - I'll throw out the idea. We pick a civ - the Indians, The Chinese, the Greeks for example - where at one time ther was civil war, or warring states within that civ. We would all be playing the same civ, just different factions. Here is one of the ideas I have been thinking about - and may be the basis for a good MP demo game. Many of you will note the cinematic refernce - but the historical context makes good civ material.

quote: HERO is based on events in China during the 3rd century BC. From 475 – 221 BC, the land was divided into seven major Kingdoms: Qin, Zhao, Han, Wei, Yan, Chu and Qi. Named ‘The Warring States Period’ because of the power struggle between the Kingdoms, this was a time of endless brutal wars and much hardship and suffering. The King of Qin (Qinshihuang)was most ruthless and ambitious of all. Historically chronicled as a brutal tyrant, the Qinshihuang was determined to conquer and control all of the states. Throughout history, there have been stories of how assassins from all over China plotted to kill Qinshihuang. HERO is one of these stories.

Seven teams. Pangaea map. Nothing too historically accurate unless someone has the urge. Equal strenth starts - but with 3 settlers - maybe even 4 - to get past the start period and get us into interesting time.

A play clock, as was used at the start of the ptwdg. With maybe 12 hours allotted per team for a turn. C'mon - with 7 teams that still gives your team 3 and half days to discuss what your are doing. Enough of this pure science civ. Let's get a game that moves.

	06-10-2004 07:18									#17
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That would be quite interesting, Beta. I'd be in (even though the Chinese aren't one of my favorites, i could manage

Duo or Trio is a good way, too, imho. 2-3 players per team at most, more than that and it takes too long slash is too uninteresting for the players that are less involved.

I'd be happy to be your partner, or pretty much anyone's.

12 hour limit is good, or at most 24 hour. Remember, since some people will pass it along very quickly, it's not entirely fair to expect someone to pass a turn they just got at 7am (and both people work 9-5) on at 7pm ... But if it was "12 hour if you had at least 2 days" or something like that, it would be fine.

	06-10-2004 07:26									#18
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well earlier in the Viking Demo game we did discuss a game where we were all of the Viking Nation and warred it out for supremacy

	06-10-2004 07:44									#19
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Another civ to add to that would be good ol' Japan, or any country that was ever run under a feudal government.

I say we should find the total number of players interested, split into teams, then vote for the civ, having it chosen out of the possible ones at random being an option also.

	06-10-2004 08:10									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Gamecube64 Another civ to add to that would be good ol' Japan, or any country that was ever run under a feudal government. I say we should find the total number of players interested, split into teams, then vote for the civ, having it chosen out of the possible ones at random being an option also.

Yup - Japan would be a great choice as well, GC. And I like your idea of seeing who is interested ad then voting.

What about the idea of the 3 settler start? Just to get things underway and interesting quickly.

	06-10-2004 08:37									#21
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a starter pack would be grand

and maybe even a few more units than 3 settlers

and if we have a crew make the map as in the last game, then they could even start each group with an inital settlement or some such

I quite like starter packs for multiplayer games - really gets the game under way quickly

	06-10-2004 13:06									#22
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Well, a Conquests game sounds like an interesting idea. I'm not sold on the idea of yet another team game however. They get so competitive that it's all about squeezing out that extra shield or trade - not so fun for the paser-by/half-idler.

It's a tricky thing to do to try and come up with ways of ensuring that people stay interested and can get involved if they haven't been since the start of the game. I think there is at least one thing that can be done with any type of game though. That is to make the map a small one. This would speed up tech progression, so we're not stuck in the Ancient Age forever; speed up contact and thus wars, always something that causes a spike in interest and participation; and to ensure that our empire never gets so large that a casual player couldn't easily get the hang of dealing with play/strategy if they wanted.

Whether you guys opt for another team game (in which case I would help out, but more with organising than play - there's enough team games around IMO) or not (in which case I would be keen to join in), I think a small map could be a good start.

	06-10-2004 20:30									#23
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I'm interested, but don't think I could manage being the core player, time-wise. If it gets underway, though, I'll join a team.

	06-10-2004 22:59									#24
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I will join too after almost all my pbem games died but I can't be the core player of a team too

	07-10-2004 04:16									#25
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ahh indeed

well we are getting some options here

and the players

	07-10-2004 20:38									#26
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what options? just more lurkers

	08-10-2004 03:32									#27
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Well, with a WW II MP challenge now going on, perhaps an sp dt using one of the conquests.

Just be sure that the difficulty poll is after the civ in the poll conquest. We could also try moding it to allow a minor civ to be chosen that still have some chance of winning on a not too high difficulty level.

Prime possibilities of minor civs with a shot of winning are:

1. In Rise of Rome, the eastern most one. Lots of land to REX into. Other minor civs as neighbors.

2. The Dutch in WW II : Pacific. (Collective victory)

3. Poland in Middle Ages doesn't look too bad. Well going for the crusade might be out, but there's a lot of empty land east and they are also near two other minor tribes.

Conversely, the following choices should only be made on Sid level because they are rather easy.

1. Fall of Rome : Huns (Lots and lots of starting nomads plus the realtive isolation ensures advanced warning of attacks.)

2. Middle Ages : Turks. (Unstopable UU not even requiring Iron + lots of land initally open.)

	08-10-2004 04:37									#28
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the Dutch in WWII are a great option

so to the Hun in Rise of Rome

good points on the polls

	12-10-2004 03:53									#29
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What about the ww2 europe mod....

Whatevcer happens, I will be at least a lurker.

	12-10-2004 04:09									#30
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Well, has somewhat writen a ww2 europe one?

Somehow I'm thinking a ww2 europe one would have some very un-PC features for Germany earning VPs.