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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
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Another whole complex subject, GA's.
I have not triggered it as 1) in despot 2) too small. I would have used Immortls in a tight spot, but I now will not use them, except on barbs, if I can get away with it.
This was another reason to delay the GL, it as it could cause a GA for Persia. I don't know if it will or not, but I know it could.
If that happen in about 25 or 30 turns, I won't mind much. I am not use to having great wonders in the ancient era, so I forget what does what for what civs, except for China and Cleo.
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StainlessSteel
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This is good food for though. I'll Start up a new game until I get a decent starting loc, then we can try that What do YOU consider to be a decent starting loc?
Few Questions, All floodplains(1wheat) and desert... restart? or is the chance of disease and lack of shields overcome by the FP+wheat ability to grow insanly fast?
Pop rushing? Any advice on this? I don't use it hardly at all, so I'm not familiar with what should and could be pop rushed.
SSR
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
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This start was fine as you can see. It will slow you down to not have any bonus food, but no harm. Who can know from the start what is a great layout.
In general, I would like to see a river and one bonus food. Not be in the midst of jungles or mountains. But I can deal with it, if I am. It is just that for a friendly learning game, who needs it. Save it for an AU game where hardship is expected.
Also I do not have the patience to play really rough starts, I leave that to the truely great players.
Pop rushing is not my cup of tea either. I do in in some spots. That is what is good about civ, you cannot always do the same thing and must be prepared to think of another strat.
So if I am in a bind and need to pop rush a defender, I will. If I can pop rush workers or settlers from a captured city, I will (rare for me).
I recoqnize some occassions when you can profit from pop rushing, but I prefer to not use it in the main.
Remember it can lead to much unpleasantness and I cannot afford that in most of the games I will be playing. The second citizen is already born unhappy. This can lead to the use of pop rushing to keep the size down to under 3 or 4 all the time.
Flood plains, now you have me again. I am in the minority, in that I tend to not like them and stay away from them in the early game, if I can.
They are great for getting growth, but as I said in my games that can be a double edged sword. I just do not like any random events and sickness and vulcanos fall into that category in my book.
All you of the other bent, don't bother to disway me on the random events. To each his own and I don't like them.
Also you will be hard pressed to build things with little shield production. OTOH you could you it to crank out a bunch of workers and settlers and grab some better land.
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Yup, I think I said about the same thing. I suspect you can play the game a few ways and get to more or less the same place down the road. |
Depends on how you play... if you don't balance things then you will end up behind in the end.
quote:
Actually I only built two wonders, with one other started. Not sure if that is a big deal or not, but if you say so. |
The problem is that you basically only have 2 good cities and a wonder in each.  That basically kept both cities busy on big projects while they could be producing Settlers and Workers. That's why my empire is so much more advanced than your own.
quote:
Anyway the good news for you is you have 12 cities. That bad news is you are now surrounded by Zulus. |
Only if you consider a single city with 2 Impis in the tundra to be "surrounded." My southern flank is quite secure with the Zulus spread out. I have about 15 or so Immortals and could slice them to pieces in only a couple turns if I wanted, but that goes against my house rules.
quote:
I have Arbela doing the one wonder it is working on, if it can and two are cities making settlers and one troops, well two if you count AC's.  |
Problem is that you need cities producing Settlers and Workers pretty early on. Things grow exponentially as time goes on, so while you have 2 cities doing Settlers in your game, I have 4 doing so in mine. Which means I'll continue growing faster and faster compared to you.
quote:
No chance to be surrounded by anyone. Zulus are gone. I played out to around 330BC and also got a war declared by Rome.
Happy boost for me and bad news for them. I do not have to use my Immortals to do more than patrol. I sent two AC's out and stomped a few units and one has already kill one of probably two defenders in a city. |
AI offensives on Monarch isn't a concern. Like I said, a couple turns and I could take the Zulus out if I wanted.
quote:
I was never fond of keeping civs around for research, so I won't miss the Zulu much. I will be expanding in a nice controlled way, if was to play on. Rome will not be able to expand any more as I will have AC's to stop that crap. I then will probably push them to the brink. |
Maybe not, but it's a very effective tactic. Zulus are starting to fall further behind though, so the only reason to keep them around is in order to keep things somewhat challenging.
quote:
But as I said it was not played optimally and you can beat the AI a lot of ways at monarch.
Just pick one you enjoy and have at it. |
Well, keep playing and we'll see where we both end up in a few millenia.
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StainlessSteel
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GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrr
Damn I'm pissed off right now...
I just had 12 riders slaughtered by 2 defending longbow men. ARGH! Sorry I needed to scream
SSR
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StainlessSteel
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Chinese Riders, and longbowmen have 1 defense.. not hilled city either..
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
* Trip nods at Dom |
* Dominae nods at Trip, oblivious to what's going on...
Last edited by Dominae on 21-09-2004 at 01:42
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Raghnall
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Virginia
Sep 2002
time: 00:23
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I've always thought archers needed to be tweaked.
Here's what I'd do...
Archers
0(1)/1(2)/1
Longbowmen
0(2)/1(4)/1
Archers and Longbowmen never should be able to be employed as offensive melee units, hence their zero attack strength, and should be given the usual nominal 1 defensive strength. Archers were hardly every wiped out unless their whole army was wiped out. Probably a few exceptions where skirmishers (archers and sling shots) got caught by cavalry, but ancient battle lines were formed in such a way as to let the skirmishers shoot and then break and run through friendly troop lines to the safety of the rear before they could be engaged by the enemy.
They should have offensive bombardment capabilities, but they should not be as great as their capability to bombard on defense.
Reason:
When an archer's army is attacking an enemy on defense, the defending army can employ their shields as well as terrain to make the offensive archers job harder.
When archers are on defense against an attacker, they can use terrain (height of city walls or hills) to their advantage and the attacking units would find it harder to employ their sheilds vs. the hail of arrows the defending archers would release upon them due to their mobility (much easy to employ a shield when stationary. The Roman "testudo" took a LOT of practice).
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see units that have different attack and defense bombardment strengths.
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StainlessSteel
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Whee! Just had the best game. Picked Celts as my race. I think it was a good game becuase the continent I was on had almost all the resources. And I believe it DID have all the strategic ones. I was behind in Tech until I got the GL and after it wen't obsolete (I swear the computer beelines edu. once you have it)
4 other Civs on my continent, Japan, Spain, America, and Egypt. Early war vs Japan and Spain expanded my civ and brought about my GA (right at second age, allowing me to get Sun Tza)
During my catchup India suggest a MPP. while they were at war with the tiny Carthagians. Reluctantly I accepted to get an early supply of rubber for upgrading my riflemen (LW is nice with the Art of War). India then proceded to drag me into a World War, when he literarly declared war on every Civ but me. (Back when I was still in Democrat mind you.)
After about 11 turns of non-stop war, I declared war on india to break our MPP and declared peace with all of the other Civs.
America built into quite the powerhouse while I was behind in techs, but once I switch to Communisim, I was able to stockpile enough cash to steal techs every 2-3 turns from America and the Ottomans.
I then eliminated Spain. Japan and America at war with each other, both decided to take out the middleman (me). I reduced Japan to 1 city and took a good 1/2 of America's cities.
Declared peace and had to launch into space to defeate the rampaging Ottomans who were 2 pieces from launch.
Ahhhh it was a Fun game  Finaly!
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Golden Bear
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Oregon
Feb 2002
time: 21:23
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Well, I don't think I suck at Civ but I have been playing mostly Regent because it's easy and I did not want to have to think much. But after tuning in to this thread and the Demigod thread I figured I would step up to Monarch for good.
Here is my Monarch story.
I've played Monarch in the past and have won about half the time. But I needed a good start. So I fired up a world, skinny Pangaea, random age, Large and picked the Americans. I maxxed the number of civs because I think that makes things a little easier. I have never played the Americans because of their very late GA but I have been learning to push the GA out late anyway. Normally I play the French and it is pretty easy to postpone the GA with them. Plus I love the "AHUNH" the Musketeer makes.
Anyway, first try I got plopped onto a floodplain with three distant hill squares. What the hey, I am going to try building a worker/settler pump and this looks like a good spot. Fortunately, no civs were very close so I got to expand a little without pressure. The scout unit was awesome and popped about 20 huts and got me 3-4 techs plus a free city!! And the free city was near Ivory. I had an awkward geographical situation since I was at the left tail of the continental snake and the free city was around the curve. But I made it work.
Did lots of tech trading, smootched up to civs as well as I could. Made lots of warriors on the theory that aggressive civs only count number of units, not quantity. I did OK but then fell behind on tech in the middle of the next era. Maya was trying to be KAI - they had Temple of Zeus. I saw them moving troops into my region and preemptively gave them a lot of money. They left me alone.
Then I had no saltpeter. I tried to culture steal some from the Byzantines but no dice. Finally I attacked them and stole a couple of cities around the resource and then got a peace. Everything was pretty calm except for the Germans who had a tiny front with me and who allied with the Byzantines. I fought them out too but they left a stack of Riflemen in my territory.
Well, I decide to develop and produce since I had an Score edge and a tech lead on critical path. Dum de dum, sell old techs to the Chinese, etc., every body loves me. Boom, the Incas, from the far right of the continent, start attacking with no provocation. I turtle up and play artillery and Cav defense and clean them out. They eventually weary but other civs start allying and fighting. I see that Byz. declares against Maya and brings Germany into that war. Wait three turns, get peace with Inca and ask Germany to leave. They declare on me and bring a stack of 97 Riflemen across the border. No horses for them, you see!!! I was a little shocked but I battered them with arty for two moves and attacked them with Cav and Cav armies to sap them down. Killed 47 in two turns... not enough. I get three new civs to declare against them and attack from behind. This cost me my entire treasury plus payments but the juggernaut turned around for a turn. I healed and kept attacking. Finally, I wore them out and put a unit into Germany. Byz. declares against me and I came over the border with tanks which I had just gotten. German concedes after I take a city and gives me another. Byz won't quit so I exterminate them. Life is good. BTW, from the Inca invasion onwards I fought in Democracy and without US. Ugh, don't want to do that again. At the very end of the Byz. war I bombed a ship with and F-15 and popped the GA.
My country is now fairly well shaped and has good resources and goodies. I am friends with most countries - Germans will never much care for me but that's life. Anyway, I can now either run to Spaceship or try to expand. But most countries are covered with defenses and mobile infantry so SS is probably fastest.
So here are some questions and comments.
1. The first Monarch game I started played as if it was still Regent. I played it out but am not reporting it here. The one above was actually the second. Is there a bug in C3C where difficulty does not change right away? It seems as if I have noticed this before.
2. Why is there no UN? I was first to Fission and could build Manhattan, but there is no UN? I don't think I did anything to the victory conditions?
3. Money has been tough through this entire game. I really only stay ahead in tech by selling pretty new techs to wealthy, and close rival, competitors for lots of money. I made 7600 GP off of one which allowed me to run at -180 for a 6 turn research.
4. I read about people buying techs but I never seem to get a civ that is willing to trade me something critical for any amount. Maybe I am missing something.
5. Can somebody describe to me what the conditions are to set up a 4 turn worker pump such as I have read about.
6. Is there a world size/number of civs that most people play at? I typically cut down to 5-6 opponents if I want a tougher game. Plus I am SP only.
Anyway, it seems that my ability to cope with Monarch has improved so maybe I will get myself comfortable here for a while and then move up again.
Carlos
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20-09-2004 03:36
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