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Rommel2D
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ACS Staff Member / Hosted Site Admin
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Upper Midwest
Feb 2003
time: 23:23
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The Dutch also choose to ignore these fables of factions among the lost civilization of Atlanta.
Since all players have not met in the game yet, such a broadcast message goes against Iron Civer etiquette, Moonbars. 
This seems like a good time for some needed housekeeping-
I had asked for everyone to give input on the rules, but was distracted by the discussion over the etiquette options. Trip, Theseus, and myself all were for agreeing to the options, and self-biased never commented. Moonbars and snoopy were being legislative over the options. Does anyone object to using these options (no talk of unknown technology, no directions used without mapmaking, and no hostile activity outside of the game's mechanics)?
For combat reporting, again Trip, Theseus, and myself were for 2.5, Mooney and s/b wanted 2, and snoop would go either way. Any suggestions on how to resolve this?
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:23
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lol, moonbars ...
The only things you "have" to do is tell other players when you attack them, and possibly (this is the difference between 2 and 2.5) tell the specific player that you entered and exited in the same turn an area he could have seen your unit in. That, and a declaration of war without unit combat should be mentioned (although that's a point of politeness and not a rule).
No posts about anything game related may, under IC rules, be made until every player in the game has contact with every other player in the game. I suppose it's not bad if you have contact with everyone else - I'd have a hard time figuring out if everyone else had contact with everyone else anyways, and you'd have the right to say something; someone might not be allowed to reply is all.  (This would meet the technical IC rule requirements. Read 1.2 carefully 
By the way Rommel, I have a comment/question about 3.2. That's sort of a standard PBEM rule, not really just an IC rule. But I have a beef with it. See, I'm often a last player, and I understand that I shouldn't be taking advantage of the fact that it sort of moves my piece a second time, theoretically moving it past an enemy before it gets a chance to attack me, or reinforcing a city before it can be attacked.
But, see, any player can do that *except* the first player. Only the first player gains no advantage from a "goto"; even the second player can use it to prevent the first player from attacking a city, or anything else -- it's just not as obvious, and of course the last player *always* can do it, while any other player can do it only to avoid a player before them.
I feel it should either go unmentioned, or it should be explicit that NO player can use GOTO in such a way (or at all, but I'd have a real problem with that). Particularly since a lot of people interpret the rule (or the "should be" rule) to mean that the last player should never use GOTO.
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
Sorry guys, I need an interpretation please: No GOTOs? |
You may not use GOTO if and only if it would provide you with a strategic advantage by allowing multiple moves in a turn. Effectively, if i'm the last player, and I move a piece through goto, it's going to effectively move 2 spots before my next opponent gets to move one spot (assuming it's a 1 move piece) because it gets the move for the current year, and then at the end of the turn the game processes gotos for the next year. You lose a move the next turn, so you don't net gain one, but you essentially give up a turn the last move of the goto to gain one on the first move. So, it's ok during normal gameplay, but when you're in or near combat it shouldn't be used unless you're 100% sure it's not going to affect things at all. (Often used to reinforce cities, for example.)
I'm fairly confident it processes *all* gotos, for all players, at the end of the last player's turn. Not everyone agrees with me there; it definitely occurs for the last player, however.
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Snoopy is correct.
All goto moves are processed after everyone's turns. This effectively gives the last player a free move since all units on goto will move twice (the turn the move is assigned, then "in between" turns), which is obviously an unfair advantage.
I use g and j all the time, but I'm careful only to have the moves take place in a single turn. Of course, I'm rarely last so it doesn't really matter anyways. |
Imagine the following situation:
Player 1 and player 3 are in a war (4 player game), and player 2 and 4 are in a war. Now, it's agreed that if player 4 has a spearman 2 tiles away (not roaded) from an undefended city under attack, and uses "goto" to move the spearman to the city under siege, he is 'cheating', essentially, because the spearman will arrive prior to Player 2 being allowed to move his piece into the undefended city.
Now, imagine if Player 3 does the same thing. Undefended city with Player 1's units outside of it, moves a spearman using 'Goto' to the city. His spearman will also get there first -- one move takes the spearman to just outside the city (on his turn), and the second move (in between turns) takes the spearman inside the city.
My point is that not only the last player needs to be cautious using goto over distances, but any player other than the first needs to consider the implications of such a move.
Goto and other forms of long-term automation (ctrl-r for example) are fairly important in PBEMs, and to categorically eliminate the possibility of this abuse (accidental or otherwise) you'd basically have to remove Goto from use altogether (except by the first player, perhaps, but that would be an unfair advantage). I feel that you should use a method that warns the player not to use it when it makes a strategic difference, and leave open the possibility of requiring a player to replay a turn if it ends up changing things.
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07-11-2004 00:20
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